Fixing Every Healer Job

[SirShady]

His proposed rework

Please, stop trying to make White Mages commit self-harm. It is a bad concept that doesn't fit the job at all. If you can't see how this would break certain fights, especially Ultimate, I don't know what to tell you. Imagine all the "bad" White Mages killing themselves to mechanics because they wanted to ink out some extra damage. We do not want something that could be used as a griefing tool as part of a basic DPS rotation. We want skill expression but not at the cost of making White Mage suicidal. Even as percent MP/max MP, this would be bad.

Benediction can stay as it is, because it's fine. It's an iconic full health heal. You remove that and there would be rioting in Gridania.

[Katoar]

Please, stop trying to make White Mages commit self-harm. It is a bad concept that doesn't fit the job at all. If you can't see how this would break certain fights, especially Ultimate, I don't know what to tell you. Imagine all the "bad" White Mages killing themselves to mechanics because they wanted to ink out some extra damage. We do not want something that could be used as a griefing tool as part of a basic DPS rotation. We want skill expression but not at the cost of making White Mage suicidal. Even as percent MP/max MP, this would be bad..

That being said, I'm thinking of just saying screw it and going Summoner. I'm just absolutely completely fed up with how they keep treating healers and it just keeps getting worse. They keep balancing for the lowest common denominator of skill, and those people STILL cant keep up with Healer. Enough is enough Square, make the game more complex and allow people who dont care or keep up to fail. We still kick people who are bad, and nothing you can do will make us stop doing that, no amount of dumbing down, no amount of homogenization.

Thread: Has anyone quit healing?

[SirShady]

Thread: Has anyone quit healing?

Bro, this entire thread is about adding complexity to healers. Go read it. There's a difference between wanting a higher skillcap for healers and having them actively kill themselves to deal damage. As I already said, losing % max HP would completely screw you over in certain content, and it has NOTHING to do with White Mage's identity. Drop it. It's a bad idea.

Find another way to add skill expression besides a clunky self-damage system. Just because I think your current idea is bad, doesn't mean I don't want changes. Obviously.

[Shurrikhan]

Thread: Has anyone quit healing?

Ahh, yes, anyone noting problems with an auxiliary and ill-fit mechanic's involvement in/with a given kit = They must just not want skill ceiling!



Again, Katoar, there's a lot of really good stuff in what you've suggested on your thread. I think the take-away here is just that the Sacrifice mechanic might not be among them.

[SirShady]

Ahh, yes, anyone noting problems with an auxiliary and ill-fit mechanic's involvement in/with a given kit = They must just not want skill ceiling!



Again, Katoar, there's a lot of really good stuff in what you've suggested on your thread. I think the take-away here is just that the Sacrifice mechanic might not be among them.

This. I've already outlined that I like the combo-magic system, and if it turns out they're not coming out with a Geomancer class, I'd totally want White Mage to make more use out of the water/wind/earth elemental attacks. The problem is the implementation.

[Shurrikhan]

SCHOLAR
Ruin 2 is replaced with Miasma - A casted dot with an 18 second timer and 50-100 potency on-hit (single target).

No mobility tool outside of melee range, then?

You may want to determine a filler-value-per-minute for perfect uptime each of your DoTs, accounting for the GCDs spent on their applications (and therefore not on filler). This is what determines DoTs' importance across your kit.

At 700 potency vs. Broil IV's 295, Biolysis currently grants 2.75 bonus Broil IVs' damage per minute. 700(2) - 295(2) = 810. 810/295 = 2.75. It's DoT ppgcd is meanwhile 2.37x that of its filler.

Note that until EW, its DoT held much greater relative importance, as Broil III dealt only 255 potency.

Art of War/Art of War II – Is now a AOE instant spell around target and nearby enemies. The trait “Bane” is unlocked at level 56, which spreads the effect of Bio/Bio II from the target to all nearby enemies with a potency of 40% upon executing (with the same duration remaining) upon executing AoW upon target.

Neat. Gotta admit, though, I'd still rather see Bane returned as an Aetherflow effect, ideally one that can also be used on allies (effectively replacing Deployment Tactics -- slightly weaker, but more flexible and without any CD of its own).

Energy drain is now replaced with Shadowflare, which functions as it did in Stormblood, but can only be executed under the effect of Aetherflow III (does not consume a stack of Aetherflow).

So, it's just free offensive potency per minute, at roughly the value of 3 EDs, thus giving SCH both its maximum offensive and curative potential. That would not be balanced unless SCH were currently undertuned by some 2k+ ST or 0.9k+ AoE healing potency, or 300 offensive ST potency, per minute. The trade-off exists for a reason.

Aesthetically, functionally, and in terms of responsiveness, I also can't say I'm a fan. I'd rather build off AoE than a ground-DoT, especially since, in this game, ground DoTs can't interact with other effects or conditions.

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SAGE
Eukrasian Dosis spells have been reduced to 24 seconds.

Quick note: This would require 5 casts per 2 min, up from 4, which means you'd lose half a filler's potency per minute. You'd have to increase potency elsewhere at a value of 165 potency per minute.

Additionally, one would need to have a GCD of 2.4s in order not to clip their DoTs or potentially let a tick go to waste. Playflow-wise, I'm fine with a 2.4s GCD, but keep in mind that the devs are more than happy for Skill Speed / Spell Speed to generally be dead, or at least notably inferior, stats outside of the Yoshida Special.

Addersting is now accumulated upon execution of any Eukrasian ability in combat, and can now be stacked to 4.

Not a fan. That'd simply mean that every (already spammable) instant-cast GCD heal offers further mobility AND bonus AoE (relative to Dosis spam) or ST (relative to Dysk spam) damage.

Toxicon spells now cost 2 stacks of Addersting and are now DPS positive over Dosis spells.

And now you'd added raw damage to the mobility+splash/focus bonuses of Toxicon.

That just sounds like you'd be stealing the Lily mechanic, then, but both watering it down and making it far more flexible. WHM toes be crushed.

Phlegma spells now combo off any Eukrasian ability.

At 510 potency (180 over filler), if Toxicon is more than 150 potency over dps nuetral, you'd have just made Euk-heal -> Phlegma combo spams more powerful than Dosis spam, with no CD on that potency recovery (or, in this case, bonus). That'd be excessive, to say the least, whilst also wasting Kardian tie-ins on half of your GCD uptime.

And thematically... why? Why should every two-part instant-cast heal+shield result in a melee AoE skill combo? That's less DPS-healer than Healer-DPS.

I like the general direction here, though. Quite a lot, actually. Though my feedback was likely harsh, these were all really good food for thought.
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ASTROLOGIAN
Combust spells now have a reduced timer of 18 seconds.

See the comment to EukDosis. This would be a pretty large potency loss. It'd also require a 2.33 GCD for sync.

Drawing a card now has a chance of granting either “Enhancement” or “Instant”, which now grants either enhanced versions of Gravity and Combust spells or allows the next spell to be cast instantly.
Enhanced spells include: Enhanced Gravity, which now does 300 potency to target and surrounding enemies (potency gain over Malefic spells) and Enhanced Combust, which now lasts for 30 seconds and an on-hit potency of 50-100.

Oooh. Hmm. Not sure what impact that'd have just yet on power and playflow, but the effect is... a bit intriguing, at a glance, especially for the DoT.

Note, though, that now that Gravity no longer has a greater-than-GCD cast time (I think since Shadowbringers), Instant's value would be purely utility... when one could already stutter-step after barely over a second of Grav's mere 1.5s cast. It will be the feelsbad effect, to say the least.
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WHITE MAGE
Aero and Dia spells now last 15-30 seconds (variable).

Based on? What's the condition for the duration variance? Random chance is unlikely to feel good here, especially if they sync to different Spell Speed tiers.

Yes, the more obvious universal solution to such things would be a rollover/"pandemic" mechanic for durations replaced/refreshed early, but that requires attention to code that the dev team does not seem inclined to invest in.

Aero III is restored and upgrades to Diara at level 72 (aoe version of Dia).

Cool, cool.

Divine Benison is now a level 66 spell, which when fully absorbed causes an AOE attack of 300-400 potency to target and 50-75% less to nearby enemies and grants “Blind” to target and all nearby enemies (duration 10 seconds).

This is the first time I've heard such an effect suggested for jobs other than SCH. Tbh, I'm tempted to agree with them that this is more a SCH Eye-for-an-Eye / Galvanic Spikes sort of effect than something suited for WHM, despite its being the more chunky nuker.
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Note that these potencies are just off the top of my head but these changes are really just to give some variation to healer dps.

Fair 'nuff. In the absence of concrete potencies, though, you may want to define intended behavior, as that's what internal balance (A being better or worse than B within the same kit) results in.

[Shurrikhan]

Apologies if this seems a bit overly theoretical, but I wanted to address a long-time issue -- healing urgency/value vs. incoming damage. I'll start by approaching this via two questions:

How could we, when limited to low healing requirements relative to our kits, better feel as if healing is decently urgent and that our heals are worth doing?

Should there be value in, for instance, healing someone at 1 hp if, even without any active healing, they'd naturally regen to enough HP to survive the next mechanic that'd strike them?

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Notes on responses:

:: I'll include my notes in hidden blocks, below, but leave the original quotes immediately visible so you can all see who's been responded to. These would ideally just be duplicates of my responses added to the end of thread as they come up, as to make it obvious to respondents that I've responded to them in turn, but I've run out of daily posts, so I'll have to just gather them here and... hope people notice, I guess.

In regards to healing urgency, in AOE situations this could be solved by either simply nerfing all relevant DPS heals (e.g. Everlasting Flight, Curing Waltz/Improvisation, Arcane Crest), or...

A quick note: Nerfing healing output would be about the same as increasing healing requirements (save that the latter is a bit more ambiguous, as it might mean increased damage intake without increasing players' eHP, which then means might mean decreased TTD), except in that it'd be a relative buff to non-Healers' heals. It'd therefore probably be no more likely than generally increased damage intake.

:: I've gone ahead and italicized "relative to their kits" to make this constraint more clear.

For tanks there's a few other things they could do, like having more bleeding tank busters which require healers to be aware of both the main and off-tank's health for a time, or have some boss auto-attacks do damage to both tanks simultaneously, or bring back the ability for bosses to crit their auto-attacks. I'd personally think it might be more engaging for tanks if had to swap more often rather than simply using Shirk/Provoke during or after a tank buster.

[/QUOTE]

Bleeding tank busters seem a simple but really smart direction to go in, at least with greater frequency, as they increase healing requirements with minimal increased stress or do-or-instantly-die moments.

It's worth noting that many bosses by now do AA damage to both tanks simultaneously.

Having bosses crit would kind of do the opposite of bleeds, as they decrease leniency while increasing potential healing waste. That's not necessarily an awful outcome; just figured I'd point it out.

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[HyonaCookie]

• Art of War/Art of War II – Is now a AOE instant spell around target and nearby enemies. The trait “Bane” is unlocked at level 56, which spreads the effect of Bio/Bio II from the target to all nearby enemies with a potency of 40% upon executing (with the same duration remaining) upon executing AoW upon target.

I personally don't want AoW to need a target to use. Targeting the tank while using the AoE makes it easier to keep track of the tank's health, especially since SCH's heal potencies are so low. Besides Excog and Fey Union, you might not end up reacting fast enough while switching from the mobs to the tank to heal them.

[Shurrikhan]

I personally don't want AoW to need a target to use. Targeting the tank while using the AoE makes it easier to keep track of the tank's health...

To be fair, we could just make it so that target-centered AoE attacks (at least those without further primary target damage) can be centered on anyone/anything.

[Nizzi]

Note that until EW, its DoT held much greater relative importance, as Broil III dealt only 255 potency.

Not to be /that/ person who nitpicks something minor but back in ShB Broil III was at 290 potency and Biolysis was at 70 potency. Broil III being at 255 only became a thing with the stat squish and Biolysis' potency didn't change.

I personally don't want AoW to need a target to use. Targeting the tank while using the AoE makes it easier to keep track of the tank's health, especially since SCH's heal potencies are so low. Besides Excog and Fey Union, you might not end up reacting fast enough while switching from the mobs to the tank to heal them.

Agreed, SCH not needing a target is its thing, I think if anything needs an instant targeted spell it should be SGE to differentiate between the two so Dyskrasia isn't just a straight AoW clone. AoW is the same functionality as Miasma II was except without the DoT as well, so it would be weird to change something that SCH has *effectively* had AoE-wise for a long time now.