Hildibrand for relic? Really?

[Akiudo]

Speaking of making assumptions, how do you know the criterion EX dungeons will be difficult and not as grindy and boring as bozja? Is the difficulty for the EX version going to be Seat of Sacrifice EX hard or Ultima Unreal hard, mr. seer?

where did i talke about "the ex version" of criterion dungeons ? i might aswell have meant the "savage" one. the fact that the devs might mess up the balancing doesn't change that their stated intent is to offer hard content, as in actually challenging, which bozja surely isn't and you can't tell me with a straight face that anyone would think bozja was "designed to be hard".

also the poster i replied to was complaining that "obviously bozja was too hard for people" (so square was now making it easier). even if criterion dungeons would somehow end up on the level of bozja my main point (that tying it into hildibrand does in no way mean the relic will be easier this time around, or that they couldn't have tied hildibrand in with something "like bozja" if so desired) still stands, "no bozja 2.0" and "relic tied into hildibrand quests" are two completly unrelated things, if square wanted to give us "bozja 2.0" for the relic they could have easily tied that into a hildibrand questline.

[Raoabolic]

where did i talke about "the ex version" of criterion dungeons ? i might aswell have meant the "savage" one. the fact that the devs might mess up the balancing doesn't change that their stated intent is to offer hard content, as in actually challenging, which bozja surely isn't and you can't tell me with a straight face that anyone would think bozja was "designed to be hard".

And are you going to tell me with a straight face that the current devs will make something so challenging to the point it scares the money away? Call it whatever you want, I call it a noticing a basic patter here, lol.

[IkaraGreydancer]

And are you going to tell me with a straight face that the current devs will make something so challenging to the point it scares the money away? Call it whatever you want, I call it a noticing a basic patter here, lol.

I mean...there's different modes of varying difficulty for a reason...casual players probably won't be doing the savage version, same with Delu Savage.

[Akiudo]

snip

never said anything like that ? 100% sure that if it gets tied into variant dungeons at all than doing the criterion savage version will not be a requirement.

there is however a big difference between making it a requirement and "letting the criterion savage version drop 2-3 times the necessary loot compared to running a normal variant dungeon", the whole argument was:

the other poster -> "they tied it into hildibrand instead of something interesting like bozja, obviously people found bozja to hard lol"
me -> we don't even know with what content they will actually tie in the relic this time, but whatever content they chose is independent of the fact they tied hildibrand into the relic quest chain. Also IF they go with "high level" Criterion dungeons being faster than whatever the alternative is than square would actually reward challenging yourself which bozja did not do as it wasn't even designed to be hard",

and than you jumping in calling me a hypocrite for "making assumptions" so yea, stop twisting my words.

[Raoabolic]

never said anything like that ? 100% sure that if it gets tied into variant dungeons at all than doing the criterion savage version will not be a requirement.

there is however a big difference between making it a requirement and "letting the criterion savage version drop 2-3 times the necessary loot compared to running a normal variant dungeon" the whole argument was

the other poster -> "they tied it into hildibrand instead of something interesting like bozja, obviously people found bozja to hard lol"
me -> we don't even know with what content they will actually tie in the relic this time, but whatever content they chose is independent of the fact they tied hildibrand into the relic quest chain. Also IF they go with "high level" Criterion dungeons being faster than whatever the alternative is than square would actually reward challenging yourself which bozja did not do as it wasn't even designed to be hard",

and than you jumping in calling me a hypocrite for "making assumptions" so yea, stop twisting my words.

Doesn't bozja have solo engagements that some would argue are more difficult than some EX mechanics... lol
That said I would hope Criterion would be that difficult but I seriously doubt that considering the direction the devs have taken this game.

[Akiudo]

Doesn't bozja have solo engagements that some would argue are more difficult than some EX mechanics... lol

is doing the solo engagement some hard requirement for getting the relic ? or even speeding it up by a noticable degree ? pretty sure no one signed up for bozja just waiting to get a chance at a solo engagement cause THAT was the content that was gonna push their relic progress through the roof.

say for simplicities sake relic truly was done completly through variant/criterion dungeons. if an average criterion (savage) run took twice as long as an average "variant dungeon" run but rewarded 3-4 times the loot
than actively opting for the more challenging content would reward you with faster completion assuming you can actually pull it off, i.e. it would reward challenging yourself instead of just going through the motions falling asleep.

now bozja on the other hand you didn't have this in that form, you couldn't sign up for "bozja savage" and got more loot or something like that, hard content (solo engagements) popped up from time to time, if you got chosen and could do them you would be rewarded, but that wasn't really an active choice you could just make and in that regard wasn't really speeding up your progress to a meaningfull degree either, bozja had "hard moments" if you choose to participate in them, but they weren't a factor you truly had (or even could) considerered concerning your relic progress.

and again, this is a giant if anyways, maybe none of this happens, and that will be perfectly fine. but arguing that they tied the relic quest to hildibrand "to make it easier" compared to having us grind another bozja is either ignorant or plain dishonest. these things are completly unrelated and square is perfectly capable to tie the relic into hildibrand and make us run glorified fates in a new zone if they are so inclined, that is what the original argument was about. the following "if criterion dungeons are the fastest way to get the relic than square would actually reward players for challenging themselves" was just a possible way how it could be handled and of course assumes that this will be the hardest "light party" content square offers because that's literally what it's advertised at, you having lost faith in square doesn't change the design intent even if it should turn out to fall short of expectations.