Dragoon 6.2 Civil discussion thread

[butchersblock]

I wish they took the player feedback seriously if anything.

Oh, and the Monk rework being "amazing" is debatable

[Amh_Wilzuun]

I wish they took the player feedback seriously if anything.

Oh, and the Monk rework being "amazing" is debatable

This is my metric for whether or not the Rework was a success. It’s currently one of the lowest ability count DPS jobs yet I see everywhere people calling it one of the hardest jobs to play. That’s a big dub in my book. We should pat the devs on the back when they add a job with skill expression like EW monk and admonish dumbing things down like 6.1 SAM

[RyuuZero]

I'd say the reason why they do those sweaping job changes is because they had huge success with Ninja in 5.2, if I right remember

[Shurrikhan]

I'd say the reason why they do those sweaping job changes is because they had huge success with Ninja in 5.2, if I right remember

In no small part because they took a job that was flagrantly undertuned, with Meisui typically being a damage loss, and buffed the hell out of it in the course of making it clunkier for low-ping players (apart, of course, from the TCJ change) and turning a combo (Shadow Fang) to a 60s CD.

But I'm sure they'd praise their changes to (gutting of) its gameplay for the increase numbers no matter how large a given job's overall power may have changed...

_______________


On the broader topic:

The good:

• Umm, good audiovisual elements? Wyrmwind Thrust, for instance, looks and sounds pretty (though Chaotic Spring is a bit... odd, at best).
• Generally... solid? I mean, it's been good enough that I level it first each time on my alt, and until ShB I'd cap it on this character too.

Could be better:

• I preferred when I actually had reason to make use of the bankability of CDs or secondary effects beyond just timing two charges of SS Dive to 2-minute raid buffs.
• The combo buttons require 9 buttons to allow all of 2 (in sustained two-target situations, 3) decisions, AoE or ST. I'd actually like to see some reason for the separate buttons, especially the 7 ST GCDs, to exist separately.
• Wyrmwind Thrust just feels like any other use-on-refresh (1.5-charge) CD, despite its being bankable for 2-4 GCDs. Little to no gameplay there because there's no longer anything to time it to outside of 2-minute raid buffs.
• Dragon Sight... exists. Now that it provides no additional damage windows to self or ally, that's the best that can be said of it. The worst that can be said of it is, well, far less positive.

[Kolsykol]

This is my metric for whether or not the Rework was a success. It’s currently one of the lowest ability count DPS jobs yet I see everywhere people calling it one of the hardest jobs to play. That’s a big dub in my book. We should pat the devs on the back when they add a job with skill expression like EW monk and admonish dumbing things down like 6.1 SAM

Skill count doesn't tell the whole story, MNK is very well-designed atm.
I'd like something extra during downtime outside of burst phases but Optimal Drift and the way it interacts with the Beast Chakra is really well-designed and MNK is incredibly flexible.
Probably my biggest issue with MNK outside of the obvious like Anatman is that I rly don't like Chakras being tied to RNG.

I wish they took the player feedback seriously if anything.

Oh, and the Monk rework being "amazing" is debatable

How would you know this when you don't play MNK ( you haven't even started Pugilist )?

I mean, every rework will be '' debatable '' whether it's good or not.
Not everyone is going to like every rework.
But I think that from a mechanical viewpoint MNK is well-designed and functional.
When you understand how it plays then it flows together very nicely.

Plus with a change like this, they could move that potency into Dragonfire dive, for having such a long cooldown, it’s only got a potency of 300. From there you could upgrade it into a visual closer to the pvp lb

Making Jumps more powerful is definitely one of the things I wish for the most, I think Jumps feel too weak when they're meant to be the unique niche of DRG.
With MNK they made the concept of a '' combo master '' a bit more of a reality, with DRG I hope they push the Jumps as the big thing where the big damage really comes from.

[CasterSvarog]

Making Jumps more powerful is definitely one of the things I wish for the most, I think Jumps feel too weak when they're meant to be the unique niche of DRG.
With MNK they made the concept of a '' combo master '' a bit more of a reality, with DRG I hope they push the Jumps as the big thing where the big damage really comes from.

Taking a quick look on the job guide it’s odd that High Jump, available every 30 seconds has a potency of 400, but Spineshatter and Dragonfire at 60 and 120 seconds have 250 and 300 potency respectively, and even regular Jump has a potency of 320. That’s always been rather weird to me given how much of a big deal Dragonfire felt at level 50, but gets beaten by plain ol jump two levels later.

[Naomishtola]

I am a Dragoon main, I hardly enjoy or play anything else. I love Dragoon to an insane degree. With that being said I'd also like to add my 2 cents here. I am not sure what "extensive" fixes Dragoon really needs. My main issues are everyone dragoon players issues... a change to battle litany. Problem simply is that Square Enix has "explained" some of their changes in the past... like Kaiten on samurai... removing it to battle the ongoing button bloat while stuff like 2 Shohas and 2 different 120s OGCDs exist with a tied CD. There were so many suggestions from the community on how to solve that issue without removing Kaiten and seemingly no one asked for it in the first place.

This is where my main concern comes in... what do we change on Dragoon? Will SE remove jumps? Remove positionals? Make the rotation easier? As someone who greatly enjoys optimizing Dragoon, I can think of a few changes that would be cool... however given prievous experience with XIVs way of reworks... I am quite frankly not looking forward to it. Summoner rework was nice yes... but it had all its complexity thrown out of the window, Monk rework was also... successful... after the class was notorious for being changed every other patch. So for the love of Halone, I hope that square enix doesn't do anything stupid this time... anyways here is some stuff that I think would be cool for Dragoon


Treat high jump as a projectile or gapcloser rather than a... not-gapcloser: Main issue is that its neither a gapcloser nor a ranged attack as you simply just go to the boss and then back... this savage tier I had to hold it in quite a few instances to avoid getting clipped by an attack which is annoying. So I hope that instead of being the weird thing it is right now, it becomes more reliable to use in encounters and in line with other dragoon ogcds


Shorten stardivers animation lock or fix the netcode... just so people with bad ping dont clip... can still take up 2 weave windows as I think it just makes the ability feel much cooler.

A personal or raidwide utility/defensive cooldown would be cool: Maybe we can replace dragonsight? Its not like its very unique after its lost its leash... other melees provide things that dragoon simply doesn't have... ninja has a shield, monk has mantra, reaper has a shield+raidwide regen... it would be cool for more DPS classes such as dragoon to have a bit more utility/defensive stuff


2 charges for elusive jump: dodging mechanics with this feels super satisfying and having more of it wouldn't hurt dragoon.

[astrabun]

Thank you for your response and for throwing ideas out there! Also yeah I'm in the same boat I don't really think it needs major changes either but its worth at least trying to have a discussion so we can say we gave them a civil response to this interesting news.

[butchersblock]

How would you know this when you don't play MNK ( you haven't even started Pugilist )?

I mean, every rework will be '' debatable '' whether it's good or not.
Not everyone is going to like every rework.
But I think that from a mechanical viewpoint MNK is well-designed and functional.
When you understand how it plays then it flows together very nicely.

Who says I don't? I've maxed every melee job except Paladin and DRG. I will admit though that Monk was never very appealing to me, and the Endwalker rework didn't change that. By far my favorite iteration of it was during Stormblood, but Endwalker's is far superior to the rubbish we had towards late Shadowbringers especially.

[Curinteru]

SE talked about button bloating and having too many oGCDs. However, we, main DRGs, don't want our job to change because we love it.

Well, I have the perfect solution to both opinions:

Just make Spineshatter do no damage and have 2 or 3 charges (they could even be shared with Elusive jump). BOOM! perfect DRG, we supress having to weave Spineshatter and we win some mobility without touching a job which is already (almost) perfect.

What do you guys, think?