Rewritten MSQ - Garlemald and EW

[aveyond-dreams]

It seems to be a bit out-of-character for the game's theme to have a "benevolent" Imperial character decide that the conquered territories are better off with the Garlean Empire considering a whole expansion was spent on their liberation. And then cartoonishly out-of-character to blame atrocities on the Senate just because OP doesn't like republics.

It also appears that the WoL basically does nothing in the first of the two expansions laid out. A story where we go back to being the mute do-nothing feels like a step back from Shadowbringers where a lot of the appeal was the fact that we were actually the main character. Instead, that spot has been replaced with yet another in the line of important MSQ blonde girls after Minfilia, Ysayle (ish), Lyse, and Minifilia, so yay for consistency at least?

That's changed in the 2nd half of the OP but the rest just feels like a rant post because they don't like Venat. We already see her at the very end of Shadowbringers and that characterization doesn't fit in with the post. Let alone our interactions with Hydaelyn elsewhere in the game.

I have already explained in the rewrite how disastrous and irresponsible it would be to turn over some of these territories to their respective Ilberds and potential Thordans. The Grand Duchess is not a blind idealogue and quite frankly I do not care for backwards rules regarding what rank women may or may not attain when half the men are either slain, tempered, or missing. She has a working and amicable relationship with the people of the conquered territories along with her native Garleans because of her charity – as in charitable actions like volunteering as a medic, spending time with them, etc. Given the choice, the majority of these people would entrust themselves over to her care instead of these rebel warlords.

I thought having a Celes type character would be more palatable than a Larsa for a playerbase that had to put up with 8 years of Alphinaud. Having this character with similarities to Celes allowed me to bring out the Locke in Thancred and give him a proper arc by extension. In any case I would also remind you that the Archadian Imperial Senate from FFXII quite literally murdered the emperor after having orchestrated the deaths of several of his other male heirs. Evil moves in packs. It takes a lot more courage to single-headedly take top control back of a country that has by this point lost its way. I’m sorry that my style of handling political writing was not to your liking, I fundamentally disagree on the point that Sharlayan democracy spreading would be a good thing for the world (especially when Sharlayan was up to several shady things before Endwalker further declawed the nation.) You probably would have disliked it even more if I had fleshed out Rozarria to the degree I originally wanted, given that it too is a former empire.

Addressing your statements regarding Venat, in this rewrite she effectively tempered the WoL and has done so many times throughout history to prevent him from potentially being tempered by Zodiark and obtaining the blessing of darkness that would shatter the Mothercrystal in which she has hid herself inside. I strongly feel that playing up the fallen angel and traitor angle makes for a more interesting and entertaining experience than the way in which Venat was handled in the MSQ. Again, agree to disagree. Venat in either case is still the greatest deceiver and manipulator in all of history, and unworthy of the mantle of goddess.

Lastly, yes I didn’t put too many words in the WoL’s mouth or too many actions in their hands because I was too focused on trying to make use of the cast’s strengths and applying them to appropriate situations. This is what felt natural, given that it’s an MMORPG, you’re supposed to fill in some of the blanks here. I don’t think this is an unreasonable expectation.

[IkaraGreydancer]

As someone who has not completed the Omega raids, no, I did not get that option. Having nuance that was sorely needed throughout 6.0 locked behind side content from 2 expansions ago isn't my idea of addressing the issue. Nor is one dialog option adequate, especially not when her codex entry is a laughably glowing review that may as well have been written by one of the lopporits.



It was stated it was Venat's belief that was the future of the Ancients.

Needed is again subjective as many folks don't feel that's the case. If what we got wasn't adequate what would be then? All the npcs going around condemning her? A whole quest line talking about how wrong she was n how evil it was? Outside of an entire rewrite there is no satisfying you guys unfortunately. It's just so weird, I didn't like Vanet after the reveal of the sundering n such initially yet the npcs being ok with it never bothered me as I don't need my feelings reciprocated from a game. I hold my own feelings. I'd be 100% on board if she reveled in the chaos that came about due to her choices but she's never been like that. She made a tough choice as did Hades and as did Hermes. All are justified for different reasons and I'm happy the game allowed me to express this even if briefly

[Theodric]

If the game truly intends to appeal to a broad audience, then it can afford to be flexible with its supposed 'themes'. Aveyond's proposal is an excellent compromise - the provinces who wish to break away can do as much but the ones who do not can remain with yet others being cut loose at a later date once stability has been restored.

As it stands, the game isn't even consistent with its own supposed 'themes' and often embraces a stance of 'rules for thee but not for me'.

As for the Omega side quests, I agree that such rhetoric should be present in the MSQ's instead. By hiding such things away in optional content many players simply aren't going to see it...and in all honesty it seems as though the writers themselves forgot some of the things that they set up in side content because it either never received further exploration or it directly contradicts what the MSQ's portray at times.

[DBriggs304]

Please no. Dabbling around in headcanons is one thing. Attempting to re-write what millions of people love just because a few people can't accept it is another.

Aye, pretty much this.

[aveyond-dreams]

If only the actual Endwalker MSQ wasn't so oversaturated with fluff and slice of life moments then perhaps that logic would hold. It does feel like a high school AU headcanon at times and not a continuation of a story that was taking itself pretty seriously by that point. This doesn't even scratch the surface of the mismanagement regarding the major pillars holding up the plot. We also know that Endwalker did have parts of it rewritten at some point, resulting in a story that:

- had no lasting consequences for any main cast members.
- rushed through 2 expansion's worth of content in one.
- whether by localization issues or fundamental writing issues cast an outright villainess as the supreme goddess of the world.
- introduced the plot device of Dynamis at the last minute and will likely never use it again.
- removed all agency from the player character by way of the time loop.
- failed to appropriately allocate budget for the "epic" showdowns that should have been shown on-screen, but weren't.

I feel like I am being forced to cede territory to a playerbase who rather than being enraptured by cataclysmic battles and thrilling storytelling would rather sit around and justify why eating Uber Eats with the scions is so much more amazing than the kind of action I would rightfully expect from a full-fledged Final Fantasy game.

[MikkoAkure]

In any case I would also remind you that the Archadian Imperial Senate from FFXII quite literally murdered the emperor after having orchestrated the deaths of several of his other male heirs. Evil moves in packs. It takes a lot more courage to single-headedly take top control back of a country that has by this point lost its way. I’m sorry that my style of handling political writing was not to your liking, I fundamentally disagree on the point that Sharlayan democracy spreading would be a good thing for the world (especially when Sharlayan was up to several shady things before Endwalker further declawed the nation.) You probably would have disliked it even more if I had fleshed out Rozarria to the degree I originally wanted, given that it too is a former empire.

Garlemald is not Archades.

The Senate was an advisory committee split between the Optimates and the Populares who didn't exactly work with each other so I don't understand how or why they could collectively do evil together. Especially since only the Optimates seemed to support the emperor. Then there were the Populares, who already existed in the game, and were written to be sympathetic by being against the Empire's conquests but went through the proper channels and just suggested reforms until they began to be purged by Varis and their supporters got gassed. Besides, I don't know how you consider them to be "Sharlayan style democracy" when Garlemald was a republic for ~600 years with no Sharlayan influence at all until Ascians got a hold of them and made them an empire. Landis was another republic in Ilsabard that had no Sharlayan influence.

If you want your "evil" force that assassinates nobles and kills civilians, look no further than the Lemures in the Reaper storyline who tried to assassinate Solus for trying to conquer lands that had nothing to do with the original Garlean goal. Or Eula who killed her dad and some others and was supported by Solus because of it. Or Titus, Varis, Nerva, and Zenos who mobilized their legions to fight for the throne and destroyed Garlemald over it. The scheming nobles playing their game of thrones and the actual assassination force that exists in-game are more likely culprits to be doing dirty deeds than a group of elected civil servants. The Senate was already established in the game by the time of Stormblood to be a potentially moderating force so unless you want to re-characterize Maxima and the Populares, it's just plain odd to do what you did.

It doesn't feel like your rewrites would fix anything. It just feels like FFXII randomly stapled into the FFXIV MSQ at best, and fanfiction that ignores existing lore in order to satisfy your preferences at worst.

[IkaraGreydancer]

If the game truly intends to appeal to a broad audience, then it can afford to be flexible with its supposed 'themes'. Aveyond's proposal is an excellent compromise - the provinces who wish to break away can do as much but the ones who do not can remain with yet others being cut loose at a later date once stability has been restored.

As it stands, the game isn't even consistent with its own supposed 'themes' and often embraces a stance of 'rules for thee but not for me'.

As for the Omega side quests, I agree that such rhetoric should be present in the MSQ's instead. By hiding such things away in optional content many players simply aren't going to see it...and in all honesty it seems as though the writers themselves forgot some of the things that they set up in side content because it either never received further exploration or it directly contradicts what the MSQ's portray at times.

Thing is I don't recall anyone ever saying Venat did nothing wrong. It's more just understanding and acceptance for the most part. Context and the position within the story matter as well. I don't think it's wrong for folks to give Venat more leeway when actions created the lives we now have while Emets strove to take those away. Even with that I never felt the story tried to paint him or even Elidibus as evil. Same as I never felt the game was trying to paint Venat as this Uber hero. She's a woman with a huge burden that cares deeply for her people same as Emet. They both made huge choices that resulted in alot of suffering. Yet neither revel in it. I can accept that. Same for Ysh and her familiars. I'd take issue with what she did if she didn't console them at the end. That shows she cares and doesn't do it lightly.

Who's to say the scions don't operate on the same or similar logic?

[aveyond-dreams]

It doesn't feel like your rewrites would fix anything. It just feels like FFXII randomly stapled into the FFXIV MSQ at best, and fanfiction that ignores existing lore in order to satisfy your preferences at worst.

And neither did the fanfiction that made it into the MSQ with burger eating catboys and nonstop preaching about hope vs despair so hard that it became intolerable. Yes I am bringing up that scene again and yes it is absolutely justified given that it was the most out of place scene in the entire game. We are extremely unlikely to ever agree on what or what doesn't work for the story, and quite frankly I make no attempt to hide my own biases here - if something gets in the way of what I believe is effective storytelling then I ignore or remove it. I wrote down what I thought would be a cool experience. That's it.

I even mused on what incorporating Landis instead of Rozarria would have turned out like, but it seems you didn't like my ideas on that much given it would have been impossible for me to tell a compelling story by simply handing control of the republic back to a faceless senate instead of having Noah van Gabranth take charge of the place. Involving him in the political game being played out across Ilsabard would not have made for a bad story mind you, but "reverting" to democracy as you would have these nations do would have come across as dull and tired after having done this far too many times over the past decade.

I did what I could to reign myself in at times as I was writing that whole thing in the span of...somewhat less than 24 hours but given that it's summer I do not follow anything resembling a normal sleep schedule these days. Anyway, next year when FFXVI comes out I get the Final Fantasy game of my dreams. The next game of the mainline series was entrusted to writers who I believe did an effective job with their storytelling in Heavensward and across various Ivalice-adjacent media. I will be playing that while if things continue going downhill here, 6.4 will have the WoL working at a Wendy’s in the Void because the line between what could be taken seriously and what cannot has been crossed and the intended audience – seemingly – has shifted directly away from me.

[whitemoonflower]

After rereading the ending that I gave to the Loporrits...I will agree with you in that I do hope that some chose to stay awake and not rejoin their new adopted mother, Meteion, so soon. When I was thinking of what to do with them, as obscure a reference as this might be, I was looking back to Buju from Dawn of Mana. In the ending of that game, Buju longingly looks at his owner, Ritzia, as she sinks into the depths of the Mana Tree before transforming into the Goddess of Mana. I think to myself, given the choice, wouldn’t a creature like this want to be reunited with his owner? Wouldn’t therefore the Loporrits, essentially children, want to be reunited with the figure that they have accepted as their mother?

Other inspiration for the way in which I wrote them includes the story of Hachiko – though the Loporrits in my rewrite were subjected to a far crueller fate. Hachiko’s owner did not abandon him deliberately, but the Hydaelyn of my rewrite did despite these creatures perpetually longing for her return. They would immediately believe Meteion to be the goddess having finally come back for them, and Meteion would be both enamoured by such cute creatures yet internally torn at the thought of deceiving them. Eventually, they would come to realize that Meteion had lied to them but because of how much love she showed them, they come to look at her as everything they wished Hydaelyn was.

Perhaps they'd come to wonder more about the world she loved the same way she loved them: dearly, selflessly, and with a warmth that strikingly contrasted if not entirely dissipated the cold rejection that once followed them like a shadow across the face of the moon. Either way, I much prefer the purpose you gave them. Being abandoned in their creator's vain insanity, mistaking another for her, and then being unconditionally accepted by that same one who later comes to bear the rightful, intended form would grant them much more depth than being mere "moonship-piloting fail-safe bunnies".

I also appreciate how you changed the WoL's battle with Zodiark into something more than what felt like a minor detour. The journey to face him contrasted with the journey to face Hydaelyn would've been something to remember. The souls within him refusing to aid Zenos and even encouraging/helping the WoL would've been a thoughtful touch as well—something to mark their realization, coming to terms, acceptance, and passing on peacefully. They'd all been through so much, yet only a few received a proper send-off.

[andrealfus]

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