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  1. #1
    Player EaraGrace's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Location
    Ul’dah
    Posts
    822
    Character
    Eara Grace
    World
    Faerie
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Veloran View Post
    She had enough power to fight WoL and the Scions in a pointless suicide trial. She had a giant crystal of aether, half of which wasn't even used for her plan. She resides in a literal sea of nigh-infinite aether. There is zero reason why she couldn't have contacted WoL or anyone else at any point throughout the story.
    A fight which burned through her soul. All of the other aether was intended to ensure humanity could get to Ultima Thule.

    Quote Originally Posted by Veloran View Post
    A lot of the Watcher's dialog implies or outright states that he was practically biased by design. Such as when he says that as a creation of Hydaelyn, he believed by default that the age of the Ancients would be forgotten.
    Which he follows by contradicting, I think it’s a bit complicated his motivations.

    Quote Originally Posted by Veloran View Post
    Or how his memories surrounding the Final Days and the Sundering were intentionally "cut away" so that modern people would be unable to look back on those events and reach any conclusions about them. Even when he talks about his final living memories, what he says about being sad she'd stand apart from her people and swearing to share her vigil backs up the idea from Anamnesis that suggests her summoners didn't know they were about to die.
    Let’s play this out as if we were a member of Venats faction.

    You join Venat and learn of the situation that threatens the star and the problem of Dynamis. You learn that humanity will have to deal with mortality and suffering in order to survive. You don’t think this applies to you for some reason.

    Time passes. You agree that Zodiark and the Convocation will not solve the issue and concur with Venat that you must summon forth a being of light that will forever imprison Him, only with wayyyyy less people. You know summoning required using the souls of Ancients to power it, but you don’t think that it’s odd you’re able to create a deity strong enough to imprison him that uses exponential less aether. You’re sure it’ll work itself out.

    You undergo the ritual, Venat agreeing to be the heart much like Elidibus, and suddenly, oh no, your life force is slipping away! Who could’ve seen this coming!

    Quote Originally Posted by Veloran View Post
    I wouldn't say that the Watcher supporting people reaching their own conclusions is evidence that he isn't biased or that his opinion shouldn't be questioned, because both he and Venat were intentionally keeping watch over humanity to see how they developed, what sort of people they evolved into, and what conclusions they reached. Like Flow Together says, she was "weighing your every choice". That's not to say his opinion is without merit or anything, but when the one memory left to him is one of pure love for Venat and devotion to her cause and all the rest were stripped away in order to ensure the truth would be hidden for all time, we have to at least take it with a grain of salt.
    You can certainly take his statements with a grain of salt, but I think the fact that the one memory left was his vow should show that it’s not really the circumstances of his creation that makes him biased, but the person he was based on. And I think we should consider that perspective as much as we do any of the other Ancients who were also biased.
    (5)
    Last edited by EaraGrace; 06-25-2022 at 02:11 PM.

  2. #2
    Player
    Iscah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Posts
    14,143
    Character
    Aurelie Moonsong
    World
    Bismarck
    Main Class
    Red Mage Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Rulakir View Post
    Likewise, Emet's saving the WoL from the rift in SoS within the context of EW has now turned into perpetuating the time loop (having regained his memories upon death) than the initial belief it was a kindness to Elidibus. (Instead, by doing this he seemingly dooms Elidibus to 'turbo death'.)
    Not necessarily. From that moment as described in Tales from the Shadows, he describes himself "on brink of death" and from what I remember of discussions when the story first came out, other languages were more clear that it was a "last act before completely dissipating" sort of deal.

    So it seems quite likely this is before he has his memories restored, and even if it comes afterwards, that doesn't mean he specifically knows that Elidibus's soul will be destroyed as a consequence – or perhaps he does, and (I speculate) it's a fate any heart of a primal is doomed to from the moment of their transformation. Perhaps we simply never went into that level of detail when we described future events to him.

    Ultimately it is Elidibus's own choice to burn through his aether to open the portal to the past. There is nothing directly pressuring him to do so except his own sense of duty, and perhaps that slow dissolution is his only alternative at that point.
    (13)

  3. #3
    Player
    Veloran's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2019
    Posts
    665
    Character
    Vane Weaver
    World
    Diabolos
    Main Class
    Gladiator Lv 84
    Quote Originally Posted by SannaR View Post
    Are you talking about the slower Aether collection bit? That was probably due to the prepping of the first and the source for a light aspected calamity?
    I'm not sure what you mean, I wasn't referring to events surrounding the First.

    Quote Originally Posted by CrownySuccubus View Post
    It was explained in ShB that neither Zodiark nor Hydaelyn required massive aether consumption under normal conditions because of the abundance of aether in the Ancients sacrificed to summon them. Modern primals require obscene amounts of aether because they are comparatively Aether-starved.
    Meaning, she should clearly have more than enough aether for a phone call.

    Quote Originally Posted by EaraGrace View Post
    A fight which burned through her soul. All of the other aether was intended to ensure humanity could get to Ultima Thule.
    Yes, a trial she didn't even need to undertake. But again, that other aether was hardly "intended to ensure" anything, given it just coalesced through coincidence. And once more, she exists in a nigh-infinite realm of pure aether. There is no reason for her to have wanted for energy to contact WoL.

    Who could’ve seen this coming!
    Based on what he says there and what the group says in the recording... Not them, apparently.

    but I think the fact that the one memory left was his vow should show that it’s not really the circumstances of his creation that makes him biased, but the person he was based on.
    To a degree. But the fact that he had other memories stripped from him does very much have to do with the circumstances of his creation.
    (4)

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