Who knew the 6.15 Omega Quests… (Spoilers)

[CrownySuccubus]

Reddit, Twitter, Discord and other sites are nebulous "them" scapegoats. In any fanbase or faction, it's always easy to find "You disagree with me, therefore you're bad" trolls. That's the nature of any kind of fandom. And those types can be found anywhere and in any opinionated faction.

Likewise regarding Garlemald and the Ascians and fans accused of being fascists or Nazis: as I've mentioned before, liking Garlemald is fine on its own, if the reasons are superficial like their armor aesthetics or cool machines. But on the other hand, if someone were...say...a fan of Garlemald because they admire or agree with their ideologies of militarism, conquest, genocide or Varis'/the Ascians' goal of a single superior race, then yeah...those are some fascist red flags.

In either case, neither of these points mean much without context.

[Rulakir]

Its funny, for as much as this thread claims the Watcher is to biased in his stance to be trusted, he's explicitly fine with people coming to there own conclusions and in fact encourages it and doesn't go out of his way to force his own opinion on anyone.

Okay? I never said he was going to waterboard the WoL for not agreeing. :P However, he also says: "I am a creation of Hydaelyn, and as such, I believed the age of the ancients would fade and be forgotten..." This can be easily extrapolated to her ideology as a whole, particularly as he does make frequent usage of "we" and "our" terminology. I think it's ridiculous after years of character agency being hand waved due to tempering, somehow an actual creation of a primal is exempt from any form of bias (especially when we see this isn't the case). He also suspects his recollection was limited by her and when he speaks of 'sharing her sleepless vigil' it's in the context of her being 'so resolved in her convictions'. His OG self couldn't have changed her mind if he wanted.

I actually like the Watcher, but I feel sorry for him. I view him (both versions) as one of many victims of Venat's path of destruction towards "the world we knew you deserved".

They haven't lost agency at all. It's still their own actions and decisions that will create the future, even if somebody else knows what will happen. Unless Hydaelyn is manipulating their every move, they are still in control of what they do.

She was manipulating it from the moment she spared Emet from being sundered while sundering Azem. She wouldn't have been ignorant of the bond between those two and, listening to the WoL's tales of the future, could be assured that Emet's sentimentality towards Azem regardless of incarnation would be his undoing. Likewise, Emet's saving the WoL from the rift in SoS within the context of EW has now turned into perpetuating the time loop (having regained his memories upon death) than the initial belief it was a kindness to Elidibus. (Instead, by doing this he seemingly dooms Elidibus to 'turbo death'.)

Reddit, Twitter, Discord and other sites are nebulous "them" scapegoats. In any fanbase or faction, it's always easy to find "You disagree with me, therefore you're bad" trolls.

I don't do Twitter, but I've been told by those who do it depends entirely on what your 'circle' is based on various filtration methods. As for Reddit, it's gotten better, but for 3-4 months after EW's release you couldn't say anything negative about EW without being downvoted into oblivion. I ended up chatting in private with several people who didn't like the story who'd messaged me because they thought they were alone. This is a sentiment I see a lot, especially any newcomers to the lackluster thread in general discussion. Most of the people I've chatted with on Reddit and more recently Discord don't post on the forums either. I know there seems to be some weird copium going on here that only about 3 people and their army of alts disliked EW and that's just simply not true.

[CrownySuccubus]

As for Reddit, it's gotten better, but for 3-4 months after EW's release you couldn't say anything negative about EW without being downvoted into oblivion. I ended up chatting in private with several people who didn't like the story who'd messaged me because they thought they were alone. This is a sentiment I see a lot, especially any newcomers to the lackluster thread in general discussion.

Like I said, this is sorta true. There are always going to be people who react harshly to anyone who doesn't like what they like or vice-versa. However, there's also the problem that mere disagreement is being lumped in with trolling and toxicity. Downvotes don't tell us anything, because someone downvoting a comment because they disagree, but can see some validity to your point has their vote counted exactly the same as Chucklefart01 who just vomits "lul looks liek some1 didnt read the storie properly lololol!1!1".

Most of the people I've chatted with on Reddit and more recently Discord don't post on the forums either. I know there seems to be some weird copium going on here that only about 3 people and their army of alts disliked EW and that's just simply not true.

I don't think that's true, either. At least I hope not. People probably feel that way because there's a few names that keep popping up in various threads repeating almost identically-worded arguments.

[SentioftheHoukai]

snip

The issue you refuse to see is that nobody has ever claimed that the call to like and favor Venat is truly in your face about it. No, in actuality it's rather subtle. It's in the framing, the way she is consistently framed as an all-loving mother goddess and a hero. The way she can do nothing wrong, and every character not even limited to the Scions have nothing but praise for her. The few times you [I]CAN[I] criticize her it's either outright ignored and insignificant (the boat scene) or immediately countermanded by Y'shtola (she lied to me?! Oh, that doesn't matter! We owe her for all the good she's done! & There was no justice in what I've done. Yes, yes. But have you heard my profound and not at all pre-school level theory about how all this time she was preparing us to fight Dynamis of Despair and not about to shepherd us all to our deaths via the Meteion Moon Express?!). That's the issue, Square knows full well if they took a sledgehammer to the face approach to her genocide of the Ancients, it's resolution and her reasoning it would not have come off near as well. Nor would it be so easy and simplistic for forum goers to defend it, so they took the in the background, subtle approach to the dilemma.

snip mk. II

This point isn't as profound as you'd perhaps like to think it is, and has in fact been regurgitated quite a bit by the resident lore experts and other persons of interest. Personally, I'd say liking the Garlemald Empire for any reason is perfectly okay seeing as how they're fictional and all. Labeling and making assumptions as to one's real life proclivities is a serious issue in video gaming and beyond right now, and frankly it REALLY needs to go. There are many, many labels I could apply to many on these forums but seeing as how I'm not an obtuse ass obviously I refrain. It's called common courtesy and respect, and it isn't new. Even if you were correct, you really think the likes of Lauront or Theodric possess the ability to make the Garlemald Empire, faithfully recreated!!! in real life? How absurd, it highlights perfectly why this is a useless problem that accomplishes nothing.

snip AGAIN

Once again, I don't think it's particularly advisable to be even considering the idea someone is one such thing or other based on their likes on a game. For all you know the person on the other side of the screen is posting random bullshit to rile you up and actually likes flowers, bright castles, and faeries. People aren't so one-dimensional. Usually.

[Rosenstrauch]

I don't do Twitter, but I've been told by those who do it depends entirely on what your 'circle' is based on various filtration methods. As for Reddit, it's gotten better, but for 3-4 months after EW's release you couldn't say anything negative about EW without being downvoted into oblivion.

On Twitter, yeah, that's entirely true. A combination of factors (search terms, hashtags, high profile users, blocking/muting and getting blocked/muted) will wildly change what the fandom's landscape looks like. You have to go out of your way to find criticism, and if it's ever a reply to an official tweet or part of a hashtag there's a high chance of it getting responded to with "you didn't understand the story!" or trolling accusations. But if it's a high profile user voicing the criticism, or even just making observations, there will typically be a lot of positive response to them.

Reddit is, well, Reddit. 90% of threads will get downvoted upon creation, with only fanart, memes, and official announcement-related things being spared. The usual answer to why is "people pay to have bots downvote everything on the sub", which is absolutely absurd and yet unfortunately believable. But criticism of Shadowbringers and Endwalker tends to get downvoted the most, and often triggers the auto-hide function as a result. For all that the site likes to claim that "Downvoting is not disagreeing, it's for quality control", it's plainly obvious nobody actually uses it that way.