It's clear SE doesn't care and Samurai will not be reverted in 6.2

[Naoki34]

I can't believe people actually expected major class overhauls from a minor patch.

People like complaining

[Stasya]

People like complaining

White knights be white knighting

[Ransu]

White knights be white knighting

That is not white knighting in that scenario...

[Hezhi]

No, I don't like complaining, I just want my kaiten backs and my crits to not feel flaccid anymore.

[angelar_]

I wish people hyperfixate less on Kaiten, a button that understandably does little other than "feel good," and focus more on real problems like "SE really screwed up the functionality of SAM AoEs in 6.1."

[Ruminous]

I wish people hyperfixate less on Kaiten, a button that understandably does little other than "feel good," and focus more on real problems like "SE really screwed up the functionality SAM AoEs in 6.1."

A lot of the issue is with the kaiten fixation is it's a piece of the machine that used to be samurai. Yanking it out, breaking the machine, then trying to fix it without the part that you just yanked out is the entire problem it has. Tenka goken being the equivalent of a wet fart is another funny one though, and a change I still don't understand either.

But yeah. Ill thought out and planned changes, haphazard implementation, nothing but lies and bullshit. Should've waited till they had something other than "we're removing an ability!"

[xAFROx]

I wish people hyperfixate less on Kaiten, a button that understandably does little other than "feel good," and focus more on real problems like "SE really screwed up the functionality of SAM AoEs in 6.1."

Part of the issue is that they shifted potencies around because of the kaiten removal, but those potencies didn't go into the Iaijutsus and instead went directly to our basic gcd combos. The whole point of the combos being weak is because it's there to build to a critical burst of some kind where we unleash a single strong hit. But none of them are particularly strong anymore. Midare hits for about 21 to 23k while other jobs still hit for above 50k with their signature moves, and while there's a valid argument that SAM uses its signature move more frequently than those other jobs, it's still a major tonal change from seeing 40-50k on enemies to 21k.

Feeling is all we really have to go by since if we were to only look at it objectively, then there's nothing so wrong with the job that it breaks.

It has problems in design now, yes. But it isn't unplayable. Simpler. Easier. Less things to think about or manage, regardless of how easy or difficult those aspects were prior to the patch, but easier and simpler than it was before, and people don't like that.

Kaiten being gone is not the only issue. It just compounded the issues made as they were all done to make up for its removal.

[AsiTsurugi]

I wish people hyperfixate less on Kaiten, a button that understandably does little other than "feel good," and focus more on real problems like "SE really screwed up the functionality of SAM AoEs in 6.1."

The problem with Kaiten being removed has had a cascading effect on the entire design, resulting in a flat damage profile because the "brilliant" game designers that grace this game had to make up for the missing potency not just via guaranteed crit on the Iajutsu skills that "kaiten was just an obligatory button for xd" and moving them to combo actions, and guaranteed crit itself which makes samurai completely undesirable in any comp with crit buffs.

So yes, while stylistically Kaiten was just a button that looks and feels good to press, the asinine decision made by the definitely-not-incompetents that constitute the dev team has made the job just a badly designed liability in many team comps. That is to say, the ruining of SAM's functionality and identity in 6.1 came as a direct consequence of their decision to remove Kaiten.

[Ransu]

I wish people hyperfixate less on Kaiten, a button that understandably does little other than "feel good," and focus more on real problems like "SE really screwed up the functionality of SAM AoEs in 6.1."

I don't really care about the cones being circles. It looks dumb, but whatever, its so far down the pole of concerns it doesn't even matter. Outside of dungeons pretty much no one even uses them.

Kaiten on the other hand directly worked with kenki. Losing kaiten wasn't just a "feel good" move, it also completely destroyed the point of kenki even existing. Don't be surprised if the next change is gyoten losing its damage if we don't get kaiten back.

The removal also meant they had to adjust potencies and they introduced the awful auto crit function to our big hitters so we lost an import skill and the dopamine of getting big crits. The entire point of SAM was "big D damage" and a core of that fun is gone now.

[xAFROx]

I don't really care about the cones being circles. It looks dumb, but whatever, its so far down the pole of concerns it doesn't even matter. Outside of dungeons pretty much no one even uses them.

Kaiten on the other hand directly worked with kenki. Losing kaiten wasn't just a "feel good" move, it also completely destroyed the point of kenki even existing. Don't be surprised if the next change is gyoten losing its damage if we don't get kaiten back.

The removal also meant they had to adjust potencies and they introduced the awful auto crit function to our big hitters so we lost an import skill and the dopamine of getting big crits. The entire point of SAM was "big D damage" and a core of that fun is gone now.

I'd say the cone vs circle debate is still important in the case SAM. While you can maybe argue that WAR it isn't as important since its just going in line with the other tanks, which in itself is already a case of homogenization, the fact that Tenka Goken is a casted skill with no range means you're now encouraged to either play recklessly and get punished or just not use the skill at all, in which case, they've failed to make a core piece of the kit meaningful for 80% of the combat gameplay we do on a daily basis.

Coupled with the fact that the potency is complete garbage, I think they really meant for SAM to not want to use iaijutsu in aoe anymore despite the fact that we have an aoe version of a skill that's only available by using iaijutsu multiple times.

Kaiten is a big issue that caused a domino effect of poorly done alterations. So to say one change is not important is disingenuous to how dirty they've done us.