"I don't want to think while I play, so no one should be allowed to."

[Jkap_Goat]

snip

even FFXI white mages has more WHITE Magic combat than ffxiv white mages

[GrimGale]

I don't play SCH in Savage (I'm SMN there), but I usually roll into Expert dungeon with it for queue times.

I prefer SCH as a healer because I literally never have to cast a GCD heal if I don't feel like it. I don't have to take my target off the tank unless a DPS stepped in the bad. It's the laziest healer and I love it so much.

Sure, Art of War one button spam is boring, but it's also satisfying in a way to NOT EVER HAVE TO STOP SLAPPING THE GROUND because the tank is good and the DPS got everything dead enough that I could finish off the final mob with a quick Ruin II.

I remember casting Bio and Miasma, then spreading the Dots with Bane. One of the most satisfying things ever. Then maintaining Miasma II and Shadowflare up while juggling with tank health was really entertaining.

[Shougun]

even FFXI white mages has more WHITE Magic combat than ffxiv white mages

Do they? I was glancing really quick and I'd say the number is actually pretty similar when you consider repeat spells and such. Like Banish 1 / 2 / 3, etc all the same spell.

Speaking potency specific:
FFXI:
Dia, Banish, Diaga, holy, may count cure?
3 - 4

FFXIV
Aero, stone, holy, fatback, and flatulence mastery
4 (with spell rules that imo makes them more interesting to use)

FFXI has more debuff specific spells though.

Yet I'm not saying that to be an argument against adding anything cool and interesting! Was just curious about the statement and thought 'maybe not?'

Debuffs for the sake of it:
FFXI:
Slow, silence, flash, addle
4

FFXIV:
Reeepose!!!
1, yeet

[GrimGale]

And? you hit the one dps (one of at least 2 that you have) button you have, did you or anyone else die during said content and you brought them back? Did you still clear? Did you contribute 5% or more damage to taking down the boss? if it's yes to any of these then again congratulations its working as intended.
No one here has yet said anything about why the healer jobs legit need to all of a sudden be a special case separate from every other caster.

>Squares reduces DPS jobs and Tanks to 1-2 dps buttons the rest being 20 repeats of the same Damage reduction button or DPS buff button.
>People complain about their rotations being reduced to mindless spam.
>"You can still contribute DPS with your streamlined kits, its working as intended."

[Sebazy]

And? you hit the one dps (one of at least 2 that you have) button you have, did you or anyone else die during said content and you brought them back? Did you still clear? Did you contribute 5% or more damage to taking down the boss? if it's yes to any of these then again congratulations its working as intended.

Where to start =(

Pugs and random deaths/vulns make little to no difference to our cast ratio if you know your kit and timers well. That goes for all levels of content.

In casual stuff like Aglaia, normal modes and arguably even Extremes and the first floor of Savage, you're just not pressured on your oGCDs. You can top the people that need to be topped whilst continuing to pulverise the nuke button because the healing requirements are typically so low that you're not having to rotate everything on CD to keep the group topped. Even in P4S P1 I would throw a Tetra on the Holmganging Warrior eating a tank buster simply because there was nothing else whatsoever to use it on.

In top end content such as the harder Savage floors and Ultimates you generally can't afford fails at all. Best case you eat a damage down and run the risk of failing to beat enrage, worst case the mechanic just kills the player and wipes the group.

In both cases, much of the time it's irrelevant anyway because splash healing can cover it. Someone eaten a stack but Assize is up in a 10 seconds? It's not a problem.

And over shielding tanks is just a huge waste of time in modern content. Dungeon trash pulls hit harder than almost anything else in this game now. It's genuinely hilarious.

No one here has yet said anything about why the healer jobs legit need to all of a sudden be a special case separate from every other caster.

We've repeated it multiple times throughout multiple threads. You're just too set on your obstinate little path to see it and you clearly have about as much interest in anyone else's opinion as you do in getting good.

[Jkap_Goat]

well keep in mind, Slow, Paralyzed, Dia II, Holy II are white magics as well

also FFXI whites mages can also uses those spells only if your subjob can use those spells like red mage, Runefencer, Scholar, Geomancer

[Shougun]

well keep in mind, Slow, Paralyzed, Dia II, Holy II are white magics as well

also FFXI whites mages can also uses those spells only if your subjob can use those spells like red mage, Runefencer, Scholar, Geomancer

I don't believe it is fair to count Dia separate from Dia II. In that case I'd count stone, stone x, glower, glower X, etc, etc. Which bloats the numbers for both jobs. I think in terms of game design they don't offer enough to be interesting enough to separately count. Dia is Dia II with a essentially passive adjustment, like FFXIV has (with mp costs and cast time they're not exactly a direct upgrade, at least back when I played FFXI, but for the purpose of this conversation I'd argue they're definitely in similar veins and we're not counting FFXIV's passive upgrades).

Like I see your edit with Boost and I do think I'd count that under potency effects, but I wouldn't count each one separately. It's bloated compared to what more interesting rules could provide in a more modern game. (Though including Boost does make FFXI either on par or 1 above FFXIV in count of potency effecting spells).


The point I do like particularly is that FFXI has subjobs, which could technically suggest a lot. Jobs are not just 'jobs' in FFXI. Personally I wouldn't use too much of FFXI's combat as an example, because to me having interesting tooltips/combos/interactions is more fun than the find a spell in a menu type system from FFXI.

Like you can have a lot of 'options' in FFXI but I'd prefer to have a lot more 'smart' spells than just 'lots of options'. (Which isn't a full defense of FFXIV, as I've put in other posts I think we could enhance jobs with smarter spells or sometimes more options like I did suggest more buff / debuff spells with a bias based on which job you were and even removing some healing spells for two reasons.. 1) it will reduce the amount of healing output potential meaning healing might be a bit more valuable and 2) regain slots to do something a bit more fun like buff / debuff or just another offensive spell of value).

So I'd append to my first response to you that I still don't think FFXI would make a shining example, becaues I wouldn't want to replicate the spell bloat, and I do think FFXIV and FFXI are not terribly far away from each other on white mage when speaking potency specific spells (its like 4-5 vs 4), but I would still agree there is more fun that could be added (and I don't think it has to be against the theme of healer, which I believe is one reason why SE is not hot on damage spells- add more support skills over straight healing then as the repeated example).

[Silver-Strider]

Hearing Impairment

I swear the people that write these arguments really need to get over themselves. We get it, you aren't skilled enough to manage 2 DoTs or even something as simple as a WAR's rotation on a Healer. The rest of us, however, have long since mastered those skills and got shafted by the constant removal of skills from healers over the years.

It has nothing to do with wanting 7-8 DPS skills and everything to do with wanting something to do beyond spamming 1 all day.

SCH has X amount of skills or WHM has Y number is irrelevant because that's literally no more than what they had in HW, where they actually had some semblance of a DPS rotation and still healed just fine.

[Merrigan]

I swear the people that write these arguments really need to get over themselves. We get it, you aren't skilled enough to manage 2 DoTs or even something as simple as a WAR's rotation on a Healer. The rest of us, however, have long since mastered those skills and got shafted by the constant removal of skills from healers over the years.

It has nothing to do with wanting 7-8 DPS skills and everything to do with wanting something to do beyond spamming 1 all day.

SCH has X amount of skills or WHM has Y number is irrelevant because that's literally no more than what they had in HW, where they actually had some semblance of a DPS rotation and still healed just fine.

They are stuck in the "my class should be better" mindset, if you look at their arguments.

You healer ? You've no right to enjoy a dps rotation (or buff / debuff rotation, for all I care). I'm a dps, so this rotation is mine.

[IDontPetLalas]

Yes, because the game's lore is the core of it and its job classes, it's a MAGIC CLASS like other magic classes that use one button to do the heavy part of their damage with similar if not superior potency is why they only need 1 button. They aren't monks, they don't run combos. If anything is a symbol of their strength that they only need 1 button and have comparable power to other MAGIC JOBS. Suggestions like "give healers more combat options." get shot down because there is no grounds for it. White Mages are NOT offensive powerhouses, be thankful they are as powerful offensively as they are period. In any Main series Final Fantasy a after maybe the 3rd game white mages had some secondary mechanic to give them more flavor. in 4 Rosa had Archery skills meaning she was an Archer White Mage, in 7 Aerith had limit breaks, in 8 Rinoa had Angelo, in 9 Garnet had summons, and in 10 Yuna had summons.

You want more but you're not using what you already have but want to say its the game not giving you enough to do with the role you chose to play. That's not a game problem that's a YOU problem, you need to go do content where you have to expend your supposed faster reflexes and analytical mind. Maybe doing Extreme, Savage and Ultimates your only reason for playing if that's what you need to feel that healing is now something you have to do more, do it in pugs I guarantee you you'll be doing nothing but healing there 98% of the time.

If you want to RP, by all means do so, but kindly do so in Limsa, of in your house, or set up a PF to run a dungeon without a job stone if it makes you happy - however please don't request to have any job designed around this one button garbage. No caster hit one button 75% of the time for the majority of their damage.

Also this "you want more but you're not using what you already have"-- . no, that's a YOU problem, because clearly you've ignored the comments from people who already play healers at all levels of comment, and do so in statics as well as pugs.