Healers need an overhaul

[pikalovr]

In an Amnesia setting, there'd only be one shield healer, SCH, as SGE's is locked behind an ability. I doubt, then, it'd simultaneously force shields just to survive a single hit of a raidwide.

you do know eukrasia is a GCd right??

[Shurrikhan]

you do know eukrasia is a GCd right??

Yup, brain fart. My bad.

[pikalovr]

Yup, brain fart. My bad.

thats why i said shouldn't the bigger issue be for AST vs. WHM cause WHM does have lillies compared to AST who does have delayed abilities they can preplan like earthly star and horoscope but that depends on how long the amnesia phase lasts and how frequent or damaging the AOEs/TBs actually are

[GrimGale]

Would a system where most healing skills are GCDs and most support/damaging skills are oGCDs invert the amount of Nuke spam we currently have? Or would it not be enough to play around the lack of constant damaging?

[pikalovr]

Would a system where most healing skills are GCDs and most support/damaging skills are oGCDs invert the amount of Nuke spam we currently have? Or would it not be enough to play around the lack of constant damaging?

it'd be a bandaid fix at best cause every oGCD we have could be purely utility or DPS based and we'd still mostly spam our one DPS button tbh the main issue is fight design and not having need for any real utility stuff like esuna and sleep in between heal checks

[QooEr]

Would a system where most healing skills are GCDs and most support/damaging skills are oGCDs invert the amount of Nuke spam we currently have? Or would it not be enough to play around the lack of constant damaging?

it would change our gcd casts slightly, but we would still be spending the vast majority of our time using our filler gcd due to the sheer lack of damage to heal.

for example: p4s part 2. https://www.fflogs.com/reports/compa...4,2&type=casts
count the healing actions each player did: 41 (ast) and 22 (sge)
now compare them to the malefic/dosis casts: 154 & 129 respectively

if every single healing ability was a gcd, if we substract those from our the filler gcd casts...
113 malefics and 107 dosis

you would still have the healers spamming filler dps spells the majority of the time.
ast 113/174 = 64.9% of gcds spent on malefic
sge 107/163=65.6% of gcds spent on dosis

[Shurrikhan]

Would a system where most healing skills are GCDs and most support/damaging skills are oGCDs invert the amount of Nuke spam we currently have?

Somewhat, but mostly not. Not really.

I think the portion of what healing potential is GCD and what is oGCD obfuscates the more core issue: The devs refuse to design mainstream fights that require more than X amount of healing per minute, or the use of more than Y healing tools to keep up with.

Changing many an oGCD heal to GCD heals won't change the fact that, because there's so little healing to be done relative to what one has (with any nerfs to the healing kit requiring also, by the current design philosophy, nerfs to healing output), any new tools will essentially just push out others.

Swapping some of that button count from redundant heals (though such would, for better or worse, likely require than the rest are empowered slightly at the levels at which those former healing skills were acquired) for attacks would likely give us a greater variety of button-presses without taxing the party-saving efforts of healers (which, I would hope, is the only reason healers' skill range has been so squished). But, so long as a single spammable attack is left (and you'd certainly want there to be, given, again, how little healing there is to do), then the spam will remain.

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To put it another way, our sense of button variety comes down simply to our CPM and how disproportionately certain actions are pressed, not so much whether they're GCDs or oGCDs.

If you want to extend button variety, appearing to give us more to do than just to spam Glare-equivalents, you essentially need to split our offensive kit's strength across that many more buttons, slightly increasing burst capacity (without increase to sustain) and perhaps little features like multi-DoTing or situational usage, and/or increase the frequency of other buttons pressed (such as via heals have both lower potency and recast times).

[Shurrikhan]

thats why i said shouldn't the bigger issue be for AST vs. WHM cause WHM does have lillies compared to AST who does have delayed abilities they can preplan like earthly star and horoscope but that depends on how long the amnesia phase lasts and how frequent or damaging the AOEs/TBs actually are

True, true. And, as you've hinted at, if the (or some among the) Amnesia phase(s) is/are short enough, AST could be the more advantaged, by being able to place Earthen Star and Horoscope ahead of time to greater effect than simply not being pushed out of one's 20 to 60s of offensive-potency-refunding Medica/CureII casts (the lilies) which technically offered no further burst healing anyways.

On a sidenote, though, I just really miss strong flurry attacks, as per T9's last phase TB. That actually rewarded well-timed pre-cast heals, while shields made that process considerably more fail-safe/lenient but weren't outright necessary.

[pikalovr]

True, true. And, as you've hinted at, if the (or some among the) Amnesia phase(s) is/are short enough, AST could be the more advantaged, by being able to place Earthen Star and Horoscope ahead of time to greater effect than simply not being pushed out of one's 20 to 60s of offensive-potency-refunding Medica/CureII casts (the lilies) which technically offered no further burst healing anyways.

On a sidenote, though, I just really miss strong flurry attacks, as per T9's last phase TB. That actually rewarded well-timed pre-cast heals, while shields made that process considerably more fail-safe/lenient but weren't outright necessary.

it's why i hate the fact people say you can't have completely unique jobs with set niches cause you can make FIGHTS take all jobs into accoutn and make some really interesting scenarios like for example you could play AST and use preplanned mits or healing to keep up optimal DPS in amnesia phase or WHM can use lillies since they're DPS neutral now they both achieve uptime and the same DPS but achieve it different ways

[KDSilver]

Personally I'd like if the devs added a status ailment that hit healers that could "lock" oGCDs, forcing only GCD healing for a bit. That'd probably spice things up a bit and be a hell of a lot more fun for the healing community. Because let's face it, we healers are addicted to the frantic chaos of trying to keep people alive while everything is burning down around us (we're masochists like that).

It depends how it works.
Because if you can't use it during the effect, but still can before...

AST could macrocosm/Horscope/preshield with neutral sect/CU or CO for the regen/Earthly Star
SCH could use mitigation such as Fey Illumination, Soil, Expediant,Seraph, preactivate emergency tactics
SGE could panhaima, physis, kerachole, still use pneuma+Zoe...

It would require planning but it's not in WHM favor "THAT" much

oGCD have timer that last from 10 to 30s