Who knew the 6.15 Omega Quests… (Spoilers)

[Iscah]

It felt more like they were trying to encourage viewing things from a broader perspective then a simple matter of right/wrong...though I can't say I felt as though the Endwalker MSQ proper really spun things that way.

I feel like "making things more than a simple matter of right and wrong" was what Endwalker aspired to be, but fell short in the execution of the concept and just gave us a narrative where none of the sides are likeable even if you feel sympathetic towards them.

I don't think this story was the right place to try to write that sort of narrative.

[Lyth]

I don't think that Endwalker was ever about passing judgement at all. Here's a little interview snippet about Ishikawa's views on antagonists from Stormblood, although I can't find the original interview link right now. I think that the move towards more sympathetic antagonists represents a more gradual shift in the storytelling since Heavensward.

You don't have to agree with someone's actions to understand the 'why' behind it. You don't need to personally experience their emotions to be able to empathize with what's being expressed.

One thing that I will say - I've always been impressed at how patiently this game's writers have historically been able to sit on secrets for the sake of a bigger dramatic payout down the road. T12's extended cutscene nearly three years after the original 'End of an Era' one is an excellent example. That's one of the main reasons why I think there's not much point formulating a judgement until after Pandaemonium and Myths are fully out.

Full disclosure, I find it interesting that people assign lore dumps to be “propaganda,” implying there’s some unvarnished truth being suppressed or ignored by the biased writers. There’s certainly examples of propaganda being used by in game actors who the writers intend to be untrustworthy, but to accuse the writers themselves of it is a bit like hearing a prophecy from the Fates and going “no way nerds you’re just lying.“

What makes it so bizarre is the fact that the story writers' words are the only thing that we have to go on. If they want to paint a character in a negative light, they can just choose to characterize them as maliciously evil. I think they've actually chosen the more challenging writing task by trying to get the playerbase to empathize with all parties involved, when some fans seem to want to polarize everything down into factional absolutes.

On the subject, though - I do note that a lot of the discussion in this thread has been unfortunately been derailed by a particular individual posting on alt accounts. I ordinarily wouldn't have an issue with such, ah, roleplaying, shall we say, but I dislike the fact that it's being used as a means for targeted harassment. He's been very careless, though, across his very extensive posting history, and you even accidentally managed to catch out two of his alts at one point. It then made it relatively easy to completely unravel the rest once I knew precisely what I was looking for. I do hope that he comes to his senses and reins it in a bit, because he does put out some well-written and interesting posts on his main posting account despite being unnecessarily stubborn. This is really not worth it for him in the long run. Sometimes it's just better to 'agree to disagree', right?

[SentioftheHoukai]

Full disclosure, I find it interesting that people assign lore dumps to be “propaganda,” implying there’s some unvarnished truth being suppressed or ignored by the biased writers. There’s certainly examples of propaganda being used by in game actors who the writers intend to be untrustworthy, but to accuse the writers themselves of it is a bit like hearing a prophecy from the Fates and going “no way nerds you’re just lying.“

Full disclosure, you might not remember Greek mythology too well for the Fates were kinda tyrants themselves. They didn't spout prophecy so much as that they had the power to reinforce reality so as to ensure it follows the path they decided was best. You don't give people the ability to quite literally decide who dies and when up to and including the very gods and expect them NOT to abuse it.

I'm not really sure I'd call anything in the Omega quests "propaganda" personally, especially with how the Watcher states that while he's satisfied with how things resolved, you shouldn't consider your own thoughts on the matter to be without merit.

It felt more like they were trying to encourage viewing things from a broader perspective then a simple matter of right/wrong...though I can't say I felt as though the Endwalker MSQ proper really spun things that way.

I call it propaganda, because they tried to inject "nuance" into the quests only to end by reinforcing the perspective they'd prefer you leave with. Just like they did in Endwalker, frankly just more of the same.

snip

See my above part to address the first part of this. As for the second portion, shame on you Lyth. Way to devalue people and dismiss their opinions with your usual wild assumptions. I know the person of which you speak as personally as one can know someone on the internet (that is to say, I interact with them more..... personally than they'd ever deign to entertain you with) and I know for a FACT that they are not, in fact alts of the same person. Despite them, and I quote, "Now sharing the same face". Isn't that rather unavoidable when you play an MMO with 4 face options per race/gender combo? Honestly.

[Theodric]

It's always fascinating to me how such bizarre theories and accusations are often put forward without any solid evidence to back them up. I'm sure names could be hidden to avoid falling victim to the naming and shaming rules, too, if that's the reason for holding back!

[Rulakir]

The Watcher is interesting since he's essentially simp squared. All of Hydaelyn's creations are shown to adore her, but he has that extra layer of his original self also having adored her. I'm not surprised he's pleased with the outcome which was exactly what Hydaelyn wanted since that's fully in line with who and what he is, wanting whatever she wants.

I am tired of the "forge ahead" messaging though. The narrative has gone from sounding like a self-help book to a greeting card.

There's still the issue of if the nuance going to continue outside of the Omega quest chain. I have concerns about what we're going to be getting in terms of short stories. Omega felt like a decent first step, but many of us are still waiting with baited breath to see whether or not it's a one time thing, especially since it's in a side quest locked behind 'old' content rather than in the actual MSQ.

Also, I'm now an alt of every Viera player. That's how this works, right? :P

[EaraGrace]

Full disclosure, you might not remember Greek mythology too well for the Fates were kinda tyrants themselves. They didn't spout prophecy so much as that they had the power to reinforce reality so as to ensure it follows the path they decided was best. You don't give people the ability to quite literally decide who dies and when up to and including the very gods and expect them NOT to abuse it.

Once again this presupposes that there is another path that would exist if it wasn’t for the Fates influence. Accusing the Fates of tyranny is like accusing the ocean or gravity of tyranny, they’re personifications of natural phenomena not kings. I mean they’re the daughter of the Night! I don’t think I’m the one not remembering Greek myth very well.

I call it propaganda, because they tried to inject "nuance" into the quests only to end by reinforcing the perspective they'd prefer you leave with. Just like they did in Endwalker, frankly just more of the same.

Yep they have a theme and lore to be consistent with, so of course they are.

See my above part to address the first part of this. As for the second portion, shame on you Lyth. Way to devalue people and dismiss their opinions with your usual wild assumptions. I know the person of which you speak as personally as one can know someone on the internet (that is to say, I interact with them more..... personally than they'd ever deign to entertain you with)

I’m sorry but “deign?” Really? It’s an Internet forum full of random strangers none of us need someone to “deign” us with a response.

The Watcher is interesting since he's essentially simp squared. All of Hydaelyn's creations are shown to adore her, but he has that extra layer of his original self also having adored her. I'm not surprised he's pleased with the outcome which was exactly what Hydaelyn wanted since that's fully in line with who and what he is, wanting whatever she wants.

“This dude is just a simp” is quite frankly such a lazy way to read into the Watcher. Remove any autonomy and just assume their down bad. That certainly makes analysis easy, I should start doing that with Elidibus and Emet!

[SentioftheHoukai]

Once again this presupposes that there is another path that would exist if it wasn’t for the Fates influence. Accusing the Fates of tyranny is like accusing the ocean or gravity of tyranny, they’re personifications of natural phenomena not kings. I mean they’re the daughter of the Night! I don’t think I’m the one not remembering Greek myth very well.



Yep they have a theme and lore to be consistent with, so of course they are.



I’m sorry but “deign?” Really? It’s an Internet forum full of random strangers none of us need someone to “deign” us with a response.



“This dude is just a simp” is quite frankly such a lazy way to read into the Watcher. Remove any autonomy and just assume their down bad. That certainly makes analysis easy, I should start doing that with Elidibus and Emet!

I'm not the one accusing another person I barely know of being a lazy alt with worthless opinions because they happen to share the same face as another character in an MMO with such a limited character creation engine with billions of other players. I'm also not surprised that's what you decided to latch onto, you're lifeline is frayed as it is.

As for the Fates, multiverse theory exists for a reason. Assuming that what the Fates say go is just indolent, it's no better than submitting to Zeus because he said so and allowing him to have his way with you. Are we supposed to just "trust them?" They have repeatedly fucked people over because it was either convenient or because it led to the outcome they preferred, and damn all the "worthy sacrifices" that unfortunately had to be permitted on the way to this grand vision of the ideal future. Naturally these sacrifices are typically families just looking to survive another day in relative comfort, how sinister of them. If the comparison reeks of another example that just "knows best and we should trust them to guide our path forward", well that was intentional and I'm tired of pretending it's not. You know, it's funny. Used to be, those who screw over countless people for a vaguely defined "ideal future" was one to be opposed. A rather stereotypical villain origin story no matter how much one may sympathize with what said villain went through that made them think this way, the one who judges the path forward is worth the sacrifices and damn anyone who disagrees. Boy, have times changed. The old ways have indeed been forgotten, and we all stand to suffer for it. HOW GRAND~

[MediocreIndigo]

Reading the comments here it seems like I'm of the somewhat unpopular opinion that I actually enjoyed Endwalker's story for the most part. The central theme really struck a personal chord with me. You're all allowed to feel however you want about the game, though I will comment that a lot of you seem determined to interpret certain characters in the most negative way possible. Some of you are also being unnecessarily hostile to each other which I find kind of disheartening, but this is an online forum so I probably shouldn't expect much better.

[SentioftheHoukai]

Reading the comments here it seems like I'm of the somewhat unpopular opinion that I actually enjoyed Endwalker's story for the most part. The central theme really struck a personal chord with me. You're all allowed to feel however you want about the game, though I will comment that a lot of you seem determined to interpret certain characters in the most negative way possible. Some of you are also being unnecessarily hostile to each other which I find kind of disheartening, but this is an online forum so I probably shouldn't expect much better.

I'll grant you this, I'm most certainly NOT acting in a charitable way to some of the others.... But to use Eara's own past words, when all who oppose you are consistently using bad-faith arguments and generally acting rather nasty why even bother with the trivialities and "nice masks" as it were. The way I see it, I'm being openly combative as opposed to some others who are instead being passive-aggressive which is easier to hide and disguise as innocuous. In other words, it's less likely to get them ban-hammered by Square if and when the mods come in here. I've had a stressful day and have no leeway left, so I suppose I'll apologize for being overly strong in expressing my opinions. Regret is off the table though, simply won't do it. As an aside, I'd argue that liking Endwalker's story is far from the hot take you seem to believe it is. It's not the positive threads that get the labels, so to speak.

[MediocreIndigo]

I'll grant you this, I'm most certainly NOT acting in a charitable way to some of the others.... But to use Eara's own past words, when all who oppose you are consistently using bad-faith arguments and generally acting rather nasty why even bother with the trivialities and "nice masks" as it were. The way I see it, I'm being openly combative as opposed to some others who are instead being passive-aggressive which is easier to hide and disguise as innocuous. In other words, it's less likely to get them ban-hammered by Square if and when the mods come in here. I've had a stressful day and have no leeway left, so I suppose I'll apologize for being overly strong in expressing my opinions. Regret is off the table though, simply won't do it. As an aside, I'd argue that liking Endwalker's story is far from the hot take you seem to believe it is. It's not the positive threads that get the labels, so to speak.

Oh, I'm aware that a lot of other people enjoyed Endwalker. I just happen to see a lot more dissatisfaction with it here than I do on, say, Twitter (which knowing Twitter is kind of ironic).