Dark Knight Megathread

[Archwizard]

I don't think it's TBN that's necessarily the limiting factor in this case

Again, I don't think TBN's exclusively at fault. I just think its current design, particularly around Dark Arts, is an obstacle. It would be more accurate to say it's an issue of the Darkside abilities as a whole, but TBN is presently balanced around them as its counterattacks, which reinforces the issue.

if we're talking about adding more MP spenders to spice up the kit then it's more how to make sure Edge and the new MP spender don't have a clear winner in every situation. Two ways I can think of is a) new spender does more damage but doesn't add Darkside and b) new spender has a CD. I think it'd be possible to add both of those with a 3K MP cost and they'd fit in perfectly fine with TBN. I can't think of a reason for them not to cost 3K MP but if they do need to then limit Dark Arts to only working on Edge/Flood.

That's a marginal difference though, and only adds buttons for the sake of buttons; at best you find yourself alternating which of the two you use in the rotation every thirty-ish seconds, and the choice isn't particularly meaningful since you're still focused on which does optimized damage, particularly based on what's compatible with Dark Arts.

If you compare it to the days of original!Dark Arts granting increased healing or enmity or causing attacks to inflict Blind, as well as the potential growth into other sources of mitigation and utility -- tools that actually expand our gameplay and ability to react situationally -- our immediate use of MP for almost exclusively damage purposes and to limit TBN remains pretty narrow, even in that scenario.

Right now, you can't really diversify our use of MP without adding buttons that are all basically equal (or only situationally superior) in damage value; any less and you won't use them, no matter what other utility they may provide. Even having them be buttons that consume variable amounts of MP has to be weighed against you spending 3k to activate TBN to get Dark Arts; if it costs more then bursting TBN's barrier becomes a damage imperative, and if it costs less then spending Dark Arts on them becomes an inherent damage loss.

[baklava151]

That's a marginal difference though, and only adds buttons for the sake of buttons; at best you find yourself alternating which of the two you use in the rotation every thirty-ish seconds, and the choice isn't particularly meaningful since you're still focused on which does optimized damage, particularly based on what's compatible with Dark Arts.

If you compare it to the days of original!Dark Arts granting increased healing or enmity or causing attacks to inflict Blind, as well as the potential growth into other sources of mitigation and utility -- tools that actually expand our gameplay and ability to react situationally -- our immediate use of MP for almost exclusively damage purposes and to limit TBN remains pretty narrow, even in that scenario.

Right now, you can't really diversify our use of MP without adding buttons that are all basically equal (or only situationally superior) in damage value; any less and you won't use them, no matter what other utility they may provide. Even having them be buttons that consume variable amounts of MP has to be weighed against you spending 3k to activate TBN to get Dark Arts; if it costs more then bursting TBN's barrier becomes a damage imperative, and if it costs less then spending Dark Arts on them becomes an inherent damage loss.

We're on the same page then, I agree the ideas weren't super interesting but that's where we're at now where you can't do much more. ItsUrBoi had another idea a few pages back that I thought could work, where MP/Darkside would be used for damage exclusively and Blood would be for utility such as self-healing or anything else you might want to add. TBN would still be a sticking point in this scenario depending on if you like it as is or not but you get the opportunity for more utility still. Or you could flip it around and have MP be the utility resource while Blood is the damage resource, along with whatever necessary reworks that needs (Edge would have to go, its Darkside increasing effect moved elsewhere and you lose the counterattack aspect from TBN). Point being that you fully separate out the utility and damage and no longer have to worry about those two things competing, and it gives DRK some diversity in its gauges rather than having Damage Meter 1 and Damage Meter 2 that never interact.