Dark Knight Megathread

[Lyth]

Here's a nice little bit of data about WF clear times on the first three expansions of the game - info is in the top voted post. I think Midas was the last tier to get any significant mechanic nerfs due to difficulty, and Creator roughly set the standard for most later Savage content.

I think tanks tend to struggle more with positioning mechanics than they do with mitigation. You can see this in the later fights of the most recent tier as well. Alongside their proposed graphical updates, I wish that they could work on updating how this game handles mob movement and animation locks. I think that if mobs could auto-attack and cleave while continuously moving like they do in Warcraft, it would allow for smoother positioning and open up the doors for more elaborate tank challenges. The problem is that every mob action is executed as a 'cast' in the combat log, which results in stutter-step movement.

[Shurrikhan]

I think that if mobs could auto-attack and cleave while continuously moving like they do in Warcraft, it would allow for smoother positioning and open up the doors for more elaborate tank challenges. The problem is that every mob action is executed as a 'cast' in the combat log, which results in stutter-step movement.

This would be HUGE. Not just in terms of making the play experience more enjoyable (smoother, more intuitive, and offering more agency), but in opening up new possibilities within encounters if that ball and chain were mitigated through revision/rework.

[baklava151]

You just described the DSR ultinate

Man I'd love to try it but I'm not ready to spend that much time progging.

[baklava151]

I think tanks tend to struggle more with positioning mechanics than they do with mitigation. You can see this in the later fights of the most recent tier as well. Alongside their proposed graphical updates, I wish that they could work on updating how this game handles mob movement and animation locks. I think that if mobs could auto-attack and cleave while continuously moving like they do in Warcraft, it would allow for smoother positioning and open up the doors for more elaborate tank challenges. The problem is that every mob action is executed as a 'cast' in the combat log, which results in stutter-step movement.

Related to that, autos could be more consistent generally. I like using Dark Mind in P4S when I'm MT to take a bit of pressure off healers when the boss is just doing autos, but it's hard finding a good spot to pop it without the boss starting a long cast and making it a waste. Same issue with using TBN, it'd be great during autos but you have to be damn sure the boss will be hitting you for a bit so you don't waste it.

[Archwizard]

The problem is that every mob action is executed as a 'cast' in the combat log, which results in stutter-step movement.

Instant- and auto-attacks absolutely should be made more fluid with movement, both for mobs and for players (instant spells, for instance, currently forcibly turn your character to face the target, overwriting your movement input). I'm not sure what kind of back-end improvements need to be made to facilitate this though, as it could be a flaw of the current engine.

Although at the very least the "casts" in the combat log allow the opportunity to plan out the types of mitigation you use, particularly for a skill like Dark Mind.

[Lyth]

It probably is a limitation in the current game engine, which is one of the reasons why I'm interested to know if they have any plans to improve on the existing game engine for the long term, now that we're ten years out. They pulled off a much more technically difficult feat in rebuilding ARR while 1.x was still running.

If there is a technical/financial limitation that definitively prevents this, then there is an alternative that might improve things. All you need to do is to create an untargetable, invulnerable mob that executes actions on behalf of the boss, from outside the arena. Casts still happen, but the boss no longer needs to pause movement to execute them because another mob is performing them in their stead.

[Shurrikhan]

If there is a technical/financial limitation that definitively prevents this, then there is an alternative that might improve things. All you need to do is to create an untargetable, invulnerable mob that executes actions on behalf of the boss, from outside the arena. Casts still happen, but the boss no longer needs to pause movement to execute them because another mob is performing them in their stead.

There's a decent chance the "casts" are themselves the animations, though. If so, that smoothness of movement could only be achieved by leaving said boss without any animations whatsoever.

I certainly hope that's not the case, but it seems to fit what we're seeing. If there's an animation, there's a pause to natural movement. And actual movement skills, both mob and player, not only replace preexisting movement (hence gap-closers cancelling knockbacks) but also prevent any natural movement input over their animation's duration.

[Simple_Barghest]

I have never actually gotten to experience the Living Dead changes, because every time I pop LD thinking I'm going to die? The healer will suddenly spam everything, and bam I survive.
Or sometimes I survive just long enough for the LD buff to fade, and then splat.
I won't say the "Cure on weaponskill" bit isn't powerful. It seems like it should be. But I'm still seeing a problem with the ability compared to the other Tank cooldowns.
Maybe that's just me tho.

[Duskane]

that heal effect is bonkers as long as you are attacking you will clense LD and unleash just a full bene in packs.

mitigation still awkward but just gotta kitchen sink.

[Archwizard]

If there is a technical/financial limitation that definitively prevents this, then there is an alternative that might improve things. All you need to do is to create an untargetable, invulnerable mob that executes actions on behalf of the boss, from outside the arena. Casts still happen, but the boss no longer needs to pause movement to execute them because another mob is performing them in their stead.

Which is a solution that already exists for any number of AoEs and special mechanics for fights.

But when it comes to things like simulating auto-attacks on behalf of the boss... I have concerns about how this would impact encounter design, since it could make things like distance from the boss essentially irrelevant for, say, kiting them out of hazardous terrain. And yes, you could just refine the AI further to mitigate this, but after a certain point it becomes easier to address the core issue rather than work around it sequentially.