Frontlines is an Unbearable Experience Now

[YukikoKurosawa]

Between summoner premades nuking entire teams

to Paladin's cover stealing nodes in Onsal

To nodes near consistently spawning everywhere that benefits the enemy team but not my team lately (since they don't spawn based on which team is winning or losing so the winning team can keep getting node spawns in their area exclusively pretty much guaranteeing their victory)

To being grouped with people who ignore call outs and objectives, can't kill or take nodes, and being grouped against constant meta abusers but somehow rarely grouped with teammates who are wise enough to abuse the meta themselves (I'll often be one of the only few summoners on my own team against teams with over half their teams summoners)

To countless games where it is obvious 2 teams are coordinating against 1 team (who is already in last place as second place NEVER focuses 1st but ALWAYS last)

It's absolutely unbearable for the solo que experience. There is nothing resembling enjoyment left save for the few rare close games. Rare, because most games nowadays just 1 team getting rolled while one throws a match for another. There is almost never anything resembling proper sportsmanship. Just abuse of broken jobs and mechanics, 2 teams ganging up on the 1 losing team rather than a proper 1v1v1 as was intended.

And what's worse is this is the only active PvP mode left save for the new, and now slowly dying, Crystaline Conflict. You took away Rival Wings rather than fix it and put it on the roulette. The one and only reason Frontlines still exists is because of the daily roulette rewards. Take that away and it dies and takes PvP as a whole with it. This isn't an enjoyable mode, and it never was. Largely because of the players themselves who refuse to play as was intended. But the game mode, along with certain jobs, being outright broken only leads to player abuse as we currently see.

It's an absolute clownshow. Is this what you want the player experience of PvP to be? Why does it even exist at this point? If you're going to leave it in this godawful state just remove it like you removed Rival Wings, let Crystaline Conflict die the death it also deserves, and do what I suggested in the past and completely give up on PvP since you refuse to actually give a damn about it and take it even vaguely seriously.

[Marxam]

those are mostly oversights with simple fixes i.e. pld cover. SMN has always been strong in in frontlines even going back to when they had dots like bio 1/2, miasma and shadowflare. They excel in choke points which a lot of maps have like the middle node of hakir. I think visibility of which are friendly and which aren't would be nice. Like if the bahamuts were colored by their respective GC i.e. mael = red, flames = black, adders = yellow. Atm I can't tell which is firendly and which isn't and I walk into one that I thought is friendly but turns out it it isn't.

I've seen alliances get shut out of the middle in cartenau when the nodes spawn by three bahamuts and a few slipstreams as they come up the ramp for easy kills. With a full party of 8 SMN with LB's you can easily block both alliances by playing the LB's on the rams going up the mid and any survivors are just picked off.

I think fundamentally the 3 alliance design is creating animosity because most, if not all, matches are basically picking on one alliance be it either adder or flames. I honestly dread whenever I get put into those GC's for a queue. Doesn't mean I won't try but its one of those situations where its frustrating enough to lose that I usually turn off the game for the day and not bother with it. Just no fun to get ganked and they need to stop with the three or maybe introduce a fourth like Ishgard GC. Stick to only two teams and keep it simple.

[Gserpent]

<pointless whining>

Hey, cool. If you hate it so much, stop playing it. And while you're at it, stop whining about it, too.

There's already a bunch of threads full of people whining about FL because they are unable or unwilling to bother trying to learn how to deal with the current meta. Summoner is fine, but you need to adjust how you play to account for it. Paladin is fine, but you need to adjust how you play to account for it. Nothing in FL is truly "broken" right now, though things are not ideal. We can expect some adjustments in 6.18, and probably more in 6.2x patches as well.

Until that point, your options are to either learn to deal with the current meta and play around it, or just write FL off as something you won't enjoy until changes are made to it. In either case, whining and complaining about it is not productive or constructive, nor is creating new threads for this whining and complaining when multiple other threads are already filling this purpose.

[Gserpent]

those are mostly oversights with simple fixes i.e. pld cover. SMN has always been strong in in frontlines even going back to when they had dots like bio 1/2, miasma and shadowflare. They excel in choke points which a lot of maps have like the middle node of hakir. I think visibility of which are friendly and which aren't would be nice. Like if the bahamuts were colored by their respective GC i.e. mael = red, flames = black, adders = yellow. Atm I can't tell which is firendly and which isn't and I walk into one that I thought is friendly but turns out it it isn't.

I've seen alliances get shut out of the middle in cartenau when the nodes spawn by three bahamuts and a few slipstreams as they come up the ramp for easy kills. With a full party of 8 SMN with LB's you can easily block both alliances by playing the LB's on the rams going up the mid and any survivors are just picked off.


As has been said in other threads, JP players do not have issues dealing with SMN and, in fact, tend to regard the class as somewhat weak (BLM is apparently much more of an issue for them, and I would tend to agree.) JP players are also well known to be *far* better than EU and NA players at FL, so it's probably not a coincidence that strong players don't really find SMN bothersome while weak ones do.

I do think that 1v1v1 is a stupid format, but there's no way they're going to change it. Not for FL.

I think fundamentally the 3 alliance design is creating animosity because most, if not all, matches are basically picking on one alliance be it either adder or flames. I honestly dread whenever I get put into those GC's for a queue. Doesn't mean I won't try but its one of those situations where its frustrating enough to lose that I usually turn off the game for the day and not bother with it. Just no fun to get ganked and they need to stop with the three or maybe introduce a fourth like Ishgard GC. Stick to only two teams and keep it simple.

Forced freelancer means GC is meaningless. Your pro Maelstrom players are equally likely to be Flames or Adders now, so I'm really not sure where you're going with that comment. If you had an enemy team that was trying to dominate choke points with Bahamut spamming... you just go around it. For Secure, this means you'd ignore mid and instead just take all the bases while their team is divided over mid - or you'd get there early, force out the bahamuts on the bridges and ramps where they won't contribute towards actual mid fighting, and then just butcher them in mid when they no longer have LB available. For OH, it means you generally just don't bother with mid anymore, especially not if you didn't get there first and take control of the platform - but this is exactly how things worked before, so it's not really a change. Mid was always a waste of time in OH and a complete noob trap. Neither Shatter nor Seal Rock have singular choke points that allow SMN spam to dominate, though there might be specific routes to specific nodes that can be problematic - the solution there is to just avoid them if you think you'll get a bunch of laser turkeys dropped on top of you.



As has been said in other threads, JP players do not have issues dealing with SMN and, in fact, tend to regard the class as somewhat weak (BLM is apparently much more of an issue for them, and I would tend to agree.) JP players are also well known to be *far* better than EU and NA players at FL, so it's probably not a coincidence that strong players don't really find SMN bothersome while weak ones do.

I do think that 1v1v1 is a stupid format, but there's no way they're going to change it. Not for FL.

[YukikoKurosawa]

Hey, cool. If you hate it so much, stop playing it. And while you're at it, stop whining about it, too.

There's already a bunch of threads full of people whining about FL because they are unable or unwilling to bother trying to learn how to deal with the current meta. Summoner is fine, but you need to adjust how you play to account for it. Paladin is fine, but you need to adjust how you play to account for it. Nothing in FL is truly "broken" right now, though things are not ideal. We can expect some adjustments in 6.18, and probably more in 6.2x patches as well.

Until that point, your options are to either learn to deal with the current meta and play around it, or just write FL off as something you won't enjoy until changes are made to it. In either case, whining and complaining about it is not productive or constructive, nor is creating new threads for this whining and complaining when multiple other threads are already filling this purpose.

"Bro it's all fine ur just whining no i wont elaborate"

Not an argument.

[Kuroka]

Yes since the changes i havend done much FL anymore... its just no fun... and we need to swtich to 2 teams per match, if its 1:1:1 the last team will just give up to loose faster and hope is lost - sure, sometimes theres a comeback but overall... you just cant balance that.

Any of the maps would work with 2 groups as well, take the CC groups and be done.

[Divinemights]

"Bro it's all fine ur just whining no i wont elaborate"
Not an argument.

I just game out a Frontline with you in there and I don't want to shame you of what just happened on a public forum.
All I am going to say is you have a lot to learn, and your ability to make any creditable criticism is highly in doubt.
Don't start to argue with veterans here, just do more research and learn first

[YukikoKurosawa]

I just game out a Frontline with you in there and I don't want to shame you of what just happened on a public forum.
All I am going to say is you have a lot to learn, and your ability to make any creditable criticism is highly in doubt.
Don't start to argue with veterans here, just do more research and learn first

If you won't point it out than why bring it up? You probably saw me die to a bahamut spam a long half my team. Been the regular experience for me lately.

Quite frankly all I've ever seen you do is damage control every last thing wrong with PvP. According to you everything is perfectly fine, git gud, etc. I don't care that you and your discord friends make premades, play the meta, and nuke people all day and you so you think PvP is fine because you have an experience that is not the average for solo que players. I play every single job, I know what I'm talking about. Summoner is broken. Paladin is broken. I have personally wiped out entire teams singlehandedly with bahamut. It is utterly broken. I have countless times witnessed paladins using cover to steal nodes (both on the enemy and my own team) when it otherwise would not have been possible.

If you want to defend the broken state of PvP because you most likely are one of the ones who abuses the broken aspects of it, by all means. But when PvP innevitably dies don't be asking where did everyone go. Why won't Frontlines pop anymore. The fact that frontlines only survives to this day because of the roulette and dies as soon as most people have done it that day is indication enough something is wrong with the game mode.

Nobody really cares that you think it's all fine and dandy. Have fun in the future when it's just you and your discord friends queing and you're waiting 30+ minutes for nothing to pop, and are forced to use a discord community to host events only at certain times of the week to even be able to do it, much like what happened to Rival Wings. You can defend it all day and night if the community just largely gives up on it in the end that's all that matters, not your personal opinion. The house is burning around you and you just sit there saying "this is fine" repeatedly.

[Divinemights]

If you won't point it out than why bring it up? You probably saw me die to a bahamut spam a long half my team. Been the regular experience for me lately.

Quite frankly all I've ever seen you do is damage control every last thing wrong with PvP. According to you everything is perfectly fine, git gud, etc. I don't care that you and your discord friends make premades, play the meta, and nuke people all day and you so you think PvP is fine because you have an experience that is not the average for solo que players. I play every single job, I know what I'm talking about. Summoner is broken. Paladin is broken. I have personally wiped out entire teams singlehandedly with bahamut. It is utterly broken. I have countless times witnessed paladins using cover to steal nodes (both on the enemy and my own team) when it otherwise would not have been possible.

If you want to defend the broken state of PvP because you most likely are one of the ones who abuses the broken aspects of it, by all means. But when PvP innevitably dies don't be asking where did everyone go. Why won't Frontlines pop anymore. The fact that frontlines only survives to this day because of the roulette and dies as soon as most people have done it that day is indication enough something is wrong with the game mode.

Nobody really cares that you think it's all fine and dandy. Have fun in the future when it's just you and your discord friends queing and you're waiting 30+ minutes for nothing to pop, and are forced to use a discord community to host events only at certain times of the week to even be able to do it, much like what happened to Rival Wings. You can defend it all day and night if the community just largely gives up on it in the end that's all that matters, not your personal opinion. The house is burning around you and you just sit there saying "this is fine" repeatedly.

I am mostly solo since patch 2.3 and I don't use discord to PvP.
You claim you play every job but that only tells me you are master at none.
At least today you learned Summoner has another ability called Summon Phenoix
You are not the first one doom says about Frontline and I will not be last one and pretty much this is repetitive ranting comes up right after every major PvP change since 2.4.

[Gserpent]

If you won't point it out than why bring it up? You probably saw me die to a bahamut spam a long half my team. Been the regular experience for me lately.

Quite frankly all I've ever seen you do is damage control every last thing wrong with PvP. According to you everything is perfectly fine, git gud, etc. I don't care that you and your discord friends make premades, play the meta, and nuke people all day and you so you think PvP is fine because you have an experience that is not the average for solo que players. I play every single job, I know what I'm talking about. Summoner is broken. Paladin is broken. I have personally wiped out entire teams singlehandedly with bahamut. It is utterly broken. I have countless times witnessed paladins using cover to steal nodes (both on the enemy and my own team) when it otherwise would not have been possible.

If you want to defend the broken state of PvP because you most likely are one of the ones who abuses the broken aspects of it, by all means. But when PvP innevitably dies don't be asking where did everyone go. Why won't Frontlines pop anymore. The fact that frontlines only survives to this day because of the roulette and dies as soon as most people have done it that day is indication enough something is wrong with the game mode.

Nobody really cares that you think it's all fine and dandy. Have fun in the future when it's just you and your discord friends queing and you're waiting 30+ minutes for nothing to pop, and are forced to use a discord community to host events only at certain times of the week to even be able to do it, much like what happened to Rival Wings. You can defend it all day and night if the community just largely gives up on it in the end that's all that matters, not your personal opinion. The house is burning around you and you just sit there saying "this is fine" repeatedly.

Maybe your DC sucks, but FL is pretty much active for 20+ hrs a day on Crystal. The only time you're likely to see the never-pop 30+ min wait is early morning, like 4-10am or so. It starts popping again as soon as daily reset hits and doesn't stop popping until everyone's gone to bed the following early AM.

There's plenty of people playing, and I see lots of the same faces and glams, even on Secure day, the map everyone hates. People aren't playing just the one game. I think you need to take some time for self-reflection and realize that maybe the way you see things, isn't the way everyone sees them.