What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[Lunaxia]

Completely fair though I am now wondering how you feel about Thancred who is fairly defined by his relationship to Minfilia and Mni-Filia, or the twins. I know the twins have a good amount of nuance, but I think it's fair to say that they are quite heavily defined by their relationship to each other, being twins...

There's a difference between a meaningful relationship having a significant impact on a character and their story, and when a character is given no other defining traits, beliefs or personality outside of that relationship. Thancred and the twins have their own unique histories, identities and purposes that shape who they are and make them credible, believable characters in their own right, outside of their connections to others. Yet even after a century away of leading a collective of survivors of a horrific apocalypse that continued to torment and haunt them beyond comprehension, G'raha still doesn't really appear to mature or change in any respect other than becoming even more fixated on the WoL and his - in my view, a little egotistical -dream of being part of some heroic epic. His character just doesn't shown much development at all, and I struggle to find what's interesting or appealing about him.

[CrownySuccubus]

Yet even after a century away of leading a collective of survivors of a horrific apocalypse that continued to torment and haunt them beyond comprehension, G'raha still doesn't really appear to mature or change in any respect other than becoming even more fixated on the WoL and his - in my view, a little egotistical -dream of being part of some heroic epic.

I disagree with this. The point of Gr'aha Tia's arc, IMO, is that he was almost assured that he was going to die at the end of his long-term plan to save The First and the WOL. The Exarch, in addition to holding back his emotions for fear of revealing his identity, is morbidly aware that his days are numbered. He selflessly dedicated his entire life to the protection of the First, and plans on taking his last breath sacrificing himself for both the world and someone important to him. But, when he survives and is thrust back into the body of his younger self, he gets a second chance at a life that seemed lost to him.

This is to say nothing of the fact that the fusion young Gr'aha and older Gr'aha left him with an identity crisis. The Gr'aha we see now is NOT merely the Crystal Exarch, or young Gr'aha with a memory injection (which is how Fandaniel describes himself in relation to Hermes). Personally, I thought the scenes where he explains how his memories of leading the Crystarium just "took over" in Radz-at-Han and how he's been wrestling with an existential crisis were pretty well done. Although, I think the latter should have had a BIT more show and less tell.

[Lunaxia]

snip.

All you've done is describe what's happened in the story, which, sparing the emotional embellishment, I don't disagree with, save that I would call his attempted self-sacrifice more of a contingency plan than anything. What I'm saying is, yes, look at what he is supposed to have gone through, and the unrealistically minimal impact that has had on his character. He spent an entire century in the First, living through unimaginably tragic experiences and what must at times have felt like a living hell whilst carrying a hefty burden, sustaining untold losses along the way and yet at the end of it all, he's scarcely any different to the man we left in the Crystal Tower, except now even more obsessed with the player character, to the point it's almost uncomfortable how preoccupied he is with them. Most people would have been left sobered and changed by his experiences, but he's trailing after us in the middle of God knows where giddy about the prospect he'll be in a story with us one day. It's bizarre. Nothing else really matters to him.

[Rulakir]

I think this is why they opted for pure allegory for the sundering honestly; if they showed the reality of it as we saw in the NieR collab...well, I don't think anybody would see any love in that.

They conveniently left out anything that would make Venat look bad. I was shocked at the NieR crossover. Some people were saying we didn't learn anything new, but I had no idea the sundering was that bad. I don't know how anyone can see that and still excuse what she did.

What I'm saying is, yes, look at what he is supposed to have gone through, and the unrealistically minimal impact that has had on his character.

Well, to be fair, this is true for all of the protagonists. The 'blindness' of Y'shtola turned out to be a super power. Thancred's inability to manipulate aether has been a minor inconvenience. Estinien is now some kind of super human after merging with the essence of Nidhogg and has lost a lot of the edge he used to have, worse because they insist on using him as comic relief now. The others don't have any physical or psychological issues.

The WoL, for all they've been through, has only exhibited PTSD when it comes to accepting drinks from strangers. It's why I found the idea of the Scions somehow being the poster children for suffering and despair ridiculous. The only two who fit the bill are G'raha and Estinien. They're by and large are rather privileged and by virtue of hitching their wagons to the WoL are guaranteed success with little to nothing in the way of setbacks and losses.

One of my favorite parts in ShB is when the WoL is in rapid decline of becoming a sin eater and I wish that had lasted longer because it's the only time I recall feeling utterly helpless and uncertain. Seeing the Scions emotionally fall apart because they didn't know what to do was great. I wish we'd see more of this. Instead, despite being on the front lines in multiple wars, surviving a world on the brink of rejoining, the return of the Final Days, and a universe ending threat, they all return to normal. The WoL is the only one who goes through a period of reflection with Omega and I think that needed to happen for the whole cast.

I'm not one who believes they necessarily need to kill off Scions, but they need to not always be fine after everything. It's simply not interesting or compelling and this is why people like the characters they keep killing off, because the antagonists are the ones with all the depth and development (usually).

[CrownySuccubus]

All you've done is describe what's happened in the story

Huh? I was explaining why Gr'aha's actions and demeanor make sense in context and seem extremely "human".

I would call his attempted self-sacrifice more of a contingency plan than anything.

I'm not sure how? He makes it pretty clear that this was his intention from the beginning. He outright states that his goal was to pretend to be some untrustworthy manipulator, and then, before the WOL could be overcome by the excess Light, pretend to "betray" them, absorb it all himself and then disappear someplace where he'd die out of sight.

What I'm saying is, yes, look at what he is supposed to have gone through, and the unrealistically minimal impact that has had on his character. He spent an entire century in the First, living through unimaginably tragic experiences and what must at times have felt like a living hell whilst carrying a hefty burden, sustaining untold losses along the way and yet at the end of it all, he's scarcely any different to the man we left in the Crystal Tower, except now even more obsessed with the player character

Yes, as I said, that is the point. The Crystal Exarch spent an entire century making sacrifice after sacrifice and eventually came to realization that he would never live to fulfill his dreams. At best, he was going to be too old and have sacrificed too much of his body to the Tower, and at worst, his plan was going to work and he was going to die with one of the people he cared about most thinking he was some half-baked villain. Also, like tokinokanate said, he did not like playing the role of the Exarch -- he made the most of it, created friendships and a family-of-choice, but it was never who he was. The Exarch was always half of a mask, and throughout ShB you constantly hear Lyna and the other people of the Crystarium talk about how often that masks slips and the boy slips through.

You can't tell me that if 99% of the gamers on this forum, or the internet as a whole, suddenly found themselves stranded somewhere for so long that they grew old and had to sacrifice their passions, dreams and the games they love, but then somehow found a way to go back in time when they were young and free of all of that....that they wouldn't immediately try to live out those once-lost dreams and play all of the games they missed out on in the alternate timeline. Hell, that's what a lot of senior citizens do when they retire from their jobs in real life.

That's not "unrealistic" to me. That's human.