What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[Xirean]

I think I'm one of the few here who like G'raha. He's my favorite Scion. I'd rather be done with Urianger and Y'shtola given the choice. I don't hate the twins, but I sure would like a break from them, especially Alphinaud.

By the way, do you have a usual play time? I'm on Crystal as well.

I also don't personally mind G'raha which was why I asked the question. Wanted to get an idea of what the issue was. My opinions on the Scions have shifted as the story has progressed but I've only JUST started to be ok with Thancred and Urianger. Y'shtola I don't care about and mainly want her gone cause she has fake died waaaaaaaaaay too much. As for the twins. I want them out for a little while or at least have a timeskip because I want them to physically age. I need a reference for time passing and they are not helping with that XD

As for usual play time? My sub is expired as of a few days ago and I don't plan on resubbing for a month or two, I'll reach out to you when I'm back to a regular play schedule.

[Theodric]

Yeah, I just like to see consistency in terms of world building and the ongoing story. If a certain act is outlined as a red line never to be crossed then it doesn't make any sense to me to suddenly pretend as if it were acceptable so long as the self proclaimed 'good guys' are directly benefitting from it.

As for the 'humour', I do think it's a valid concern - from what I've seen social media is very dominated by a sort of 'nerdy' culture that is pretty far removed from what I like. I much prefer subtle moments that may not even be intended to be 'humour' such as Elidibus being a better son to Varis than Zenos.

European humour is also very different, typically, to American and Japanese humour.

[Lauront]

It has been interesting to me to see a few story criticisms that do not revolve around the ancients, by people who nonetheless find the expansion depressing. Which I can see given the message regarding all those doomed civilisations in UT (which, really, the sundered do not overcome so much as a small group of anointed ones) and, depending on the interests of some, the disbandment of the Scions, although 6.1 has me questioning to what degree that's even meaningful. Although there's differing conceptions of social betterment, the way that the game tried to wring the worst possible outcomes out of some desirable forms of it, using shallow caricature worlds, didn't sit well with me.

I'd put my own reasons down in summary form to 1) trying to give the impression that certain innate traits - and in particular immortality - of elder/ancient races mean they're fated to be wiped out (sometimes this can be stretched into saying they should embrace this/be happy with it... Emet's UT scene bordered on this), and particularly doing this with the ancients; 2) glossing over key SHB lore with scenes and characterisation that are at best, fanciful, and at worst, outright distortions; 3) very heavy-handed use of themes which are applied inconsistently/inaptly; 4) a little too goofy for me in parts. 1 and 2 (and the associated narrative bending around making Venat's character and decision seem beyond reproach) were red lines for me regarding the ancients (and to a degree this overlaps with 3, in terms of the theme of "perfection bad"), to the point where if further lore doubles down on these, I am probably going to take my leave of the game. 3 and 4 usually just knock off points (although the extent to which they were the case in the EW MSQ was fraying my patience), but when combined with 1 and 2, suffice to leave a very bitter taste in the mouth.

[Brinne]

I mean, I think it's totally fair to put forth "this style of comedy doesn't appeal to me" as feedback and let the devs do with that what they will, measured along with the rest of the feedback they get. I'm an American who grew up consuming Japanese media, so it's a language of sorts I'm familiar with and don't find particularly jarring. But that's why when I see criticism along those lines, it's not like I try to argue against them or anything.

I'll be That Person and say I think the high school AU manga is fun and that stuff like the Azure Elephant (and Gaius's turn as a chicken) is hysterical. It's me, baby. I'm the sinner here.

[Rulakir]

I probably wouldn't have been nearly as vocally disappointed in Endwalker if Shadowbringers hadn't surprised me, blown me away, and genuinely touched me in a lot of ways.

This. I adored HW and I still consider it my overall favorite expansion, but ShB (at least 5.0-5.3) just cut to the core of me. I've cried so many tears over Emet, Hythlodaeus, and Elidibus.

Shadowbringers removed this possibility for me because it made me really care about this story and these characters, so when I saw them being mishandled, and being used to say things that both a) didn't fit within the moral framework the game had established prior, and b) didn't fit within my moral framework to an extreme, "shrug and roll my eyes" wasn't possible anymore.

Brinne always expressing it better than I do. :P

And because EW is a direct continuation and resolution to those ShB elements I treasured, I can't even compartmentalize the way they clash.

This too. I've said many times I don't feel EW is the spiritual successor to ShB and, frankly, if I didn't know better I would've assumed that Ishikawa wasn't the MSQ writer. It felt like the story was handed over to someone else to go in a direction that was not being set up throughout ShB.

I can't bring myself to get worked up over things like one-off comedy scenes or stuff like Tweetingway as a marketing device.

I would've had less of an issue with those scenes if it weren't for the fact that the Final Days/Sundering scene we got was just absolute crap. We find out they spent a month getting Hydaelyn's face just right, that the Estinien 'foot on the railing' scene was the most expensive, etc. and then the moment we've all been wondering about is just... that. No Convocation, no Zodiark summoning, no Hydaelyn transformation, no epic battle between the two, none of what people have been wanting to know about and see since ShB. Just an inaccurate depiction of events using old assets meant to glorify Venat.

I feel like us lore nerds got the shaft in this expansion.

My sub is expired as of a few days ago and I don't plan on resubbing for a month or two, I'll reach out to you when I'm back to a regular play schedule.

We're losing another voice in the choir. I wish FFXIV didn't make it such a hassle to contact people. It'd be nice to be able to stay in touch with those from this thread who've unsubbed.

[Lunaxia]

I have a question about opinions on the Scions. Is the displeasure with the fanboy personality of G'raha because people got used to the Exarch persona or because people just don't like fanboy in general? Would people feel better or less frustrated with this aspect if it were explained/explored more how G'raha actually works with the dual memories/soul thing?

I just can't bring myself to enjoy a character who feels so singularly one-dimensional in terms of his ongoing hero-worship of the WoL, and whereas once I might have shrugged it off, the rest of the SHB with its refreshingly more nuanced storyline and characters only further highlighted how flat his writing felt. I mean, it's not even really up for debate at this point, as Yoshi even confirmed it himself:

He just wants to go on an adventure alongside [your character]. He has this straightforward reverence for him or her. That's the personality of the Crystal Exarch and what shapes him.

https://www.gamespot.com/articles/fi.../1100-6480013/

Characters who are defined by their relationship to another character will never be compelling or good writing to me, which is why I also felt somewhat let down by Hythlodaeus and how the potential of his role in the story was reduced down to propping up the characters of Emet-Selch and Azem, as much as I do enjoy their relationship. I definitely could have warmed up to G'raha had they leaned more into developing an identity for him outside of his WoL obsession and touched on the effects his time as Exarch might have had on him, but instead they chose to double down on it, which as a player I can't even opt out of or disagree with, and that frustrates me even more.

[Xirean]

Characters who are defined by their relationship to another character will never be compelling or good writing to me,...

Completely fair though I am now wondering how you feel about Thancred who is fairly defined by his relationship to Minfilia and Mini-Filia, or the twins. I know the twins have a good amount of nuance, but I think it's fair to say that they are quite heavily defined by their relationship to each other, being twins...

[Rulakir]

We could just make a discord. I threw out the idea a few pages back, but nobody responded to it.

I don't know much about discord, but maybe that's a good idea if there's a way to make it a public gathering area for posters in this thread (or who have unsubbed and still read it) to chat. I'm not much of a social media person outside of Reddit, so kind of at a loss of what else to do. I've often wished this forum allowed PMs.

[Lauront]

I would've had less of an issue with those scenes if it weren't for the fact that the Final Days/Sundering scene we got was just absolute crap. We find out they spent a month getting Hydaelyn's face just right, that the Estinien 'foot on the railing' scene was the most expensive, etc. and then the moment we've all been wondering about is just... that. No Convocation, no Zodiark summoning, no Hydaelyn transformation, no epic battle between the two, none of what people have been wanting to know about and see since ShB. Just an inaccurate depiction of events using old assets meant to glorify Venat.

Don't forget that bunny pushing the "perfection doomed" line - Cookingway I think? My good ser, can I interest you in a stew recipe featuring you as the main ingredient?

[KizuyaKatogami]

Can add me on Discord if you guys would like. Then maybe we could work something out. My id is Kato#3030