What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[CrownySuccubus]

One look at the list of tags for this thread and it's clear that the forums aren't quite the "safe haven". It's just that the people with positive views toward the plot have learned to avoid this thread. Those few that do come in to argue are quickly driven out by the exhaustion of trying to reply to 5 - 10 people per post, and just never come back.

[Teraq]

Ironically, complaining via tags is the safest (and most passive-aggressive) way to complain.

I'm going to be frank: I like having my little echo chamber, because it feels like anywhere else is an opposite echo chamber. What you described is how I feel Reddit is like. It made me mentally exhausted in December and I didn't come back to either the main sub or Twitter.

And obviously people are going to congregate around similar people. Frankly having a place to vent with minimal backdraft feels absolutely wonderful.

[Xirean]

I really wouldn't call this an echo chamber. Even though most of us agree on the general topic of the thread, there's a lot of differences in how we interpret it and express it. The pages where people posted rewrites is a good example of that. Honestly the main difference that I see between this and other threads is that when people start going uwu over a character, people here don't jump on the bandwagon of being thirsty for that character.

[CrownySuccubus]

Ironically, complaining via tags is the safest (and most passive-aggressive) way to complain.

I'm going to be frank: I like having my little echo chamber, because it feels like anywhere else is an opposite echo chamber. What you described is how I feel Reddit is like. It made me mentally exhausted in December and I didn't come back to either the main sub or Twitter.

And obviously people are going to congregate around similar people.

I mean, I do too. It feels a little bit better to talk with people who aren't lavishing unending praise upon the story -- especially the parts I personally found morally repugnant.

We're simply reconfirming something I said a lot higher up in the thread.

...This place settles into its own division of cliques and echo chambers....

I really wouldn't call this an echo chamber. Even though most of us agree on the general topic of the thread, there's a lot of differences in how we interpret it and express it.

No, this thread has devolved into an echo chamber multiple times, especially when it comes to finding bad things to say about the story, the Scions and/or Venat. Unfortunately, "difference in expression" isn't what discredits an echo chamber. An echo chamber of 9 wolves and 1 sheep may have nine different ideas on how to cook the sheep, but it's still an echo chamber.

[redheadturk]

Eh. That could go either way, to be honest.

There’s definitely some cringe posts on this thread that would damper some of the otherwise good discourse if revisited. The constant potshots at social media, numerous unnecessary insults toward the writers, infighting between posters, and other things I’ll leave unmentioned.

I have looked at the tags, and honestly it seems like an even mix of them from both sides of the debate.

[Teraq]

I really wouldn't call this an echo chamber. Even though most of us agree on the general topic of the thread, there's a lot of differences in how we interpret it and express it. The pages where people posted rewrites is a good example of that. Honestly the main difference that I see between this and other threads is that when people start going uwu over a character, people here don't jump on the bandwagon of being thirsty for that character.

I like that "Endwalker was bad" is a wide enough subject that everyone has their own take on what exactly felt wrong.

I have looked at the tags, and honestly it seems like an even mix of them from both sides of the debate.

Of course! When you see people having such fun you naturally want to join in! Unfortunately we've reached the max limit, as you had just inspired me to add Mankind's first heroes, And his final hope

[Rulakir]

I don't understand the problem. Try to voice criticisms of EW on Reddit and see how far you get before you're downvoted until your post is hidden and dogpiled on by everyone telling you that you're wrong, you didn't pay attention, you were skipping cutscenes, you didn't understand the story/themes, etc. I know someone who made a bingo card based on the repetitive responses.

Xirean is right, we all have different reasons for disliking EW and don't always agree with one another. Also, at this point, I'm getting annoyed that this thread continues to be derailed about this when prior to the Zepla call out we were having some good discussions.

Yeah, EW is simultaneously my second favorite expansion after Shadowbringers, and my least favorite expansion. The parts I enjoyed and found compelling and well-written were still moreso than, again, anything except Shadowbringers, whereas the parts I disliked are the parts I probably most disliked in all of FFXIV and made me consider, for the first time ever, starting to skip cutscenes. It was, uh, sort of a stressful experience overall, in that way!

I've always said that I don't think the "bad" aspects of it were done maliciously, and that's part of why I'm willing to talk about it on the much-maligned official forums - a very, very naive hope, especially for a product-based corporation like this, lmao, that perhaps if the writers understood what had happened and what they actually ended up writing, it might actually mean something to them, and they might course-correct. (And perhaps they are...? Omega Quests Good, Please Continue In This Direction)

And for better or worse, I'm still talking about it and thinking about it actively, moreso, again, than any other expansion besides ShB - six months after the fact. Does that say more about me or the game? It Is A Mystery.

I wanted to talk about ShB after the fact because I loved it. I needed to talk about EW after the fact because I hated it. I'm the type of person to whom a bad ending can ruin an entire story.

I didn't dislike all of it, but Elpis carried EW hard. Like you said, it's a simultaneous feeling of both loving and hating it. I think that without Elpis, EW is a middling expansion. I enjoyed Garlemald, but I was bored out of my mind with Sharlayan/Labyrinthos. The moon was disappointing for a myriad of reasons. Thavnair was so-so. I have mixed feelings on UT. Elpis was just a bipolar experience of going from manic to depressive.

[CrownySuccubus]

I have looked at the tags, and honestly it seems like an even mix of them from both sides of the debate.

The tags are now in a state of constant change as one side tries to "outdo" the other. There was a time, however, when said tags were almost nothing but mockery.

[CrownySuccubus]

Try to voice criticisms of EW on Reddit and see how far you get before you're downvoted until your post is hidden and dogpiled on by everyone telling you that you're wrong, you didn't pay attention, you were skipping cutscenes, you didn't understand the story/themes, etc. I know someone who made a bingo card based on the repetitive responses.

Yes, I already said that every other place is equally bad with dividing into factions and groupthink.

Also, at this point, I'm getting annoyed that this thread continues to be derailed about this when prior to the Zepla call out we were having some good discussions.

What exactly are you getting annoyed about, though? I said that 90% of the thread is good discussion, but sometimes it devolves into a circle-jerk.

What do you want, exactly? For everybody to step in line and admit that this thread is a flawless diamond?

[Xirean]

Those few that do come in to argue are quickly driven out by the exhaustion of trying to reply to 5 - 10 people per post, and just never come back.

I don't really see this as an issue honestly. From what I've seen, most people that come in and try to argue in blind favor of the story tend to have bad arguments or do that standard "you didn't pay attention" spewl. Sure it can be annoying to have multiple people respond to you in an instant, but that just seems like more chances for a conversation.