It's clear SE doesn't care and Samurai will not be reverted in 6.2

[Hezhi]

I'm chiming in to say that I much prefer the new SAM compared to the old one. Kaiten just felt like 1 button too many compared to how SAM plays now. My main is MNK... And MNK is the king of having useless abilities, lol. So, to me, removing a button press that doesn't really feel great is better than having that button constantly impeding the way it plays. The devs could just do nothing or do the wrong thing, which is what happened with MNK's Anatman and Six-Sided Star.

I'm glad that you like it but the overwhelming majority of SAM mains don't share your opinion. I think most of us think Kaiten feels good to use because it gave Iaijutsus more juice, and more importantly it gave the Kenki gauge more than 1 use (Hissatsu: Shinten spam). Removing Kaiten is akin to making all MNK Nadis the same type, simplifying a job resource so much it may as well not exist.

[RyuuZero]

I'm glad that you like it but the overwhelming majority of SAM mains don't share your opinion. I think most of us think Kaiten feels good to use because it gave Iaijutsus more juice, and more importantly it gave the Kenki gauge more than 1 use (Hissatsu: Shinten spam). Removing Kaiten is akin to making all MNK Nadis the same type, simplifying a job resource so much it may as well not exist.

very true, Kaiten was The Skill that introduced the Kenki Resource to give the Player the option to boost the Damage Output on their own and also introduced the Concept of Kenki Management since You had to make sure that to have 20 Kenki for the next Iaijutsu, which in turn created a Kenki Iaijutsu Synergy an Aspect of the Samurai that since the 6.1 Kaiten Removal does not exist anymore and made way for monotonous Shinten Spam, which requires no planning/thinking outside of Press the Button! As Consequence one could ask with the Kenki Iaijutsu Synergy practicly non existent (outside of Hagakure, which just drains your Sen for more Kenki) what's the reason for Kenki to exist now? Shinten/Kyuten where just filler abilities that scimmed off excess Kenki for Single Target and AoE, Guren and Senei are the 2minute Busters that consume Kenki aswell yet still those where just bonus skills to dump excess Kenki into (maybe, plan to invest Kenki into those aswell yet with lvl70 Kenki Gain was so easy it became a No Brainer)..

here is a lil mind game.. count the times where you end up with 20 Kenki (with NOTHING to do with it) before doing an Iaijutsu... as for me it was way too many times!
They just have to #BringBackKaiten !

[Rekun]

Honestly these changes have made enjoying the game for me impossible. I wouldn't be playing anymore if I didn't have a house and friends keeping me in the game. They ruined the only other two jobs I found fun and now they've ruined Samurai. I don't know how much longer I can put up with this before I just quit altogether.

At this point FFXIV has just become a glorified chat room for me.

[Ransu]

I'm chiming in to say that I much prefer the new SAM compared to the old one. Kaiten just felt like 1 button too many compared to how SAM plays now. My main is MNK... And MNK is the king of having useless abilities, lol. So, to me, removing a button press that doesn't really feel great is better than having that button constantly impeding the way it plays. The devs could just do nothing or do the wrong thing, which is what happened with MNK's Anatman and Six-Sided Star.

If your main is mnk then your opinion is irrelevant.

The APM without kaiten is nearly identical and the new rotation replaced kaiten with gyoten. Nothing changed in terms of APM, but everything changed in terms of interesting game design. Kenki is a pointless resource now.

[CelestiCer]

If your main is mnk then your opinion is irrelevant.

The APM without kaiten is nearly identical and the new rotation replaced kaiten with gyoten. Nothing changed in terms of APM, but everything changed in terms of interesting game design. Kenki is a pointless resource now.

I absolutely, verily, wholeheartedly, unquestionably, definitely, undeniably, unequivocally, disagree.

I love... not being able to Kaiten my Tenka Goken and Ogi Namikiri during Dungeon and Fates that I loved farming. My god, I love not only not being able to Kaiten my low level dungeons when I have no Kyuten available? but also having to Kenki dump my AoE through a single target skill called Shinten! wow! gameplay.

Speaking of gameplay... Shinten! I love Shintening my Shintens into Shinten-ception! it almost sounds Shin-fully Shin-mazing!

Control your Kenki-bodily-fluids please, there's more... now that Kaiten is removed which btw is such an amazing change to make the oh-so unplayable Samurai FINALLY playable btw hurr-derp, I can enjoy my gameplay with a Tenka Goken cone AoE now being interactively-unteractively a Circle! to stand still while not Auto-Crit landing my Tenka Goken as a cherry on top!

Speaking of Auto-Crits that barely tickle my braincells... My Midare and Ogi-Namikiri hits so amazingly biggly! it is astonishingly kupoly-great! Do not take away my double Gyoten-Headbutt-Pokemon-Simulation-Opener please... that would really remove my enjoyment

............... GFWE!!8AHG@82!3H@GTP!![W@EO!!IG!!!

[KurenXIV]

If your main is mnk then your opinion is irrelevant.

The APM without kaiten is nearly identical and the new rotation replaced kaiten with gyoten. Nothing changed in terms of APM, but everything changed in terms of interesting game design. Kenki is a pointless resource now.

I think the opinion is relevant and outlines the issue: the changes feel like they were made for people who don't main SAM.

I'm reminded of when the latest MNK changes rolled out and while leveling the job and mentioned how I didn't think it was so bad in our FC chat only to be met with MNK mains lamenting the changes and a laundry list of things they wished were different or missed from the older play styles.

And they weren't wrong to say so. I played MNK casually and ultimately droped it once it's max level, my attachment and expertise of the job simply doesn't exist like theirs does.

[Argyle_Darkheart]

Ultimate? You think its ok to butcher class right before ultimate?

Highly preferable to massive balance shifts during prog.

[ForteNightshade]

I think the opinion is relevant and outlines the issue: the changes feel like they were made for people who don't main SAM.

I'm reminded of when the latest MNK changes rolled out and while leveling the job and mentioned how I didn't think it was so bad in our FC chat only to be met with MNK mains lamenting the changes and a laundry list of things they wished were different or missed from the older play styles.

And they weren't wrong to say so. I played MNK casually and ultimately droped it once it's max level, my attachment and expertise of the job simply doesn't exist like theirs does.

Unfortunately, this has largely been their approach to every major job change. Instead of focusing on the players who already enjoy the game, they're desperately trying to "fix" things to bring in new players who never liked it to begin with. Look at Astro and the now gutted, boring card system. How about Bard and how DoTs simply exist nowadays and all the nuanced it once had was stripped away because things like Foe's Requiem was too hard for new players to manage. Machinist has been a mess for years now and they still can't figure out why. Nevermind, healers as a whole aren't designed for players who enjoy healing but made incredibly shallow for players who have no experience playing that to not get too "overwhelmed".

It's why I fear for Dragoon come 6.2. The job is in a great spot right now and all we keep hearing is how they want to make it less busy not because of Dragoon player complaints but for people who don't like Dragoon.

[Ransu]

I miss HW DRG, but ya the way DRG is right now....I don't know what kind of redesign they could do as its overall fine atm and doesn't need any kind of changes to its design.

[Mahimahi]

I'm glad that you like it but the overwhelming majority of SAM mains don't share your opinion. I think most of us think Kaiten feels good to use because it gave Iaijutsus more juice, and more importantly it gave the Kenki gauge more than 1 use (Hissatsu: Shinten spam). Removing Kaiten is akin to making all MNK Nadis the same type, simplifying a job resource so much it may as well not exist.

I do believe that the damage is supposed to be roughly the same. Not having to do Kaiten also means being able to do more Shinten, and that keeps me busy. When I played SAM after the changes, I had heard about all the backlash and feared what the job had become. But my personal testing found that the change feels quite good. I know that people disagree, but the important question is whether people disagree whether because the change is bad, or because they don't want to change to a new play style. Imagine how I feel then, as a MNK for nearly a decade, when greased lightning was removed, and then MNK was changed to using Master's Gauge. Of course there are MNKs who hate what the job is like now, I'm simply not one of them. So my advice to SAM mains is this: don't force yourselves to play SAM if you just cannot agree to the changes. But if you're going to critique it, you're also going to have to accept that people might like the change in spite of what you think.