i'm sick and tired of the excuse for not having unique or varied jobs

[IkaraGreydancer]

Wouldn't having less job balance just lean toward more metas and thus more class complaints?

[VirusOnline]

personally job identity > balance
meta may come into play but that's where se should put their hard work instead of throwing 10% potency hotfix at everything

[IkaraGreydancer]

personally job identity > balance
meta may come into play but that's where se should put their hard work instead of throwing 10% potency hotfix at everything

Idk. Guess I'm one of those weirdos that feel job currently do have their own identity

[VirusOnline]

Idk. Guess I'm one of those weirdos that feel job currently do have their own identity

an identity in mmos usually mean that a job has something else that no other job can do, and that makes that job valuable in specific scenarios

the best example of identity being ruined is reaper. a reaper is just a watered down mnk/drg/insert melee here
delete reaper and nothing changes
thats how little identity it has

edit: now if reaper gave the ability to allow everyone in the party to use its teleport glob, that'd be a great start

[IkaraGreydancer]

an identity in mmos usually mean that a job has something else that no other job can do, and that makes that job valuable in specific scenarios

the best example of identity being ruined is reaper. a reaper is just a watered down mnk/drg/insert melee here
delete reaper and nothing changes
thats how little identity it has

edit: now if reaper gave the ability to allow everyone in the party to use its teleport glob, that'd be a great start

Ehh can't say you're wrong but Idk if I agree there. Having something completely different isn't the only indicator. It could be something similar but works differently or has different effect. Tank invuln for example, none of the 4 have the same effects as the other. It's smart for Paladin to pop theirs at anytime. Not so much for a Gunbreaker.
Different example being classes like Repear, Monk, Sam and Ninja having mitigation skills yet Reaper is the one that gets a party wide after effect to it. Monks comes with a personal True North (think that's what's its called). Sam USE to have extra healing part (wish that was buffed not removed). That to me still gives these classes an identity. I just don't think it's a stark as folks would like is all

[Deveryn]

Reaper very much has its own identity being rather on the twitchy side for all the different skills you'll hit. It's a whirlwind of murder Chain this. chain that. Pop gauge. Chain more. Reapply DoT. Chain chain chain.

An FC mate described it as a job one doesn't really play if they're trying to wind down for sleep.

[VirusOnline]

Ehh can't say you're wrong but Idk if I agree there. Having something completely different isn't the only indicator. It could be something similar but works differently or has different effect. Tank invuln for example, none of the 4 have the same effects as the other. It's smart for Paladin to pop theirs at anytime. Not so much for a Gunbreaker.
Different example being classes like Repear, Monk, Sam and Ninja having mitigation skills yet Reaper is the one that gets a party wide after effect to it. Monks comes with a personal True North (think that's what's its called). Sam USE to have extra healing part (wish that was buffed not removed). That to me still gives these classes an identity. I just don't think it's a stark as folks would like is all

fair points and a year ago i would have said the same, but i've been able to main dragoon, nin, mnk, dnc, and paladin over the year and maybe if i could show you just how diluted it all is:
each melee has true north
each dps gives a form of rdps
each dps has a personal heal and all melees have role heal and mit
also you are forgetting brotherhood from monk
selfish dps aren't really selfish, their party buffs are simply "hidden" behind a consistent adps

it's also a false sense of give and take with your tank example
basically each tank has a free life which is utilised every single boss in a raid tier
it's become the norm and is no longer an identity for anyone other thank tank
in reality invuln only makes sense (to me) for paladins only - now then would this become an identity for a class vs a role
and it would wihtout a doubt make paladin meta

it's just honestly a lot of overwriting, a lot of buffs, and all for the sake of cookie for you, cookie for me, rather than "lets plan how each job brings different things to help the party as a whole and try to minimise meta"
whilst each class is currently self sufficient but it comes at the cost of the below
self sufficiency destroys being able to rely on others and identity is drastically lowered

WoW warlocks are just a really good example to class identity imo

Reaper very much has its own identity being rather on the twitchy side for all the different skills you'll hit. It's a whirlwind of murder Chain this. chain that. Pop gauge. Chain more. Reapply DoT. Chain chain chain.

An FC mate described it as a job one doesn't really play if they're trying to wind down for sleep.

not to be an ass, but thats exactly what the issue is
4/5 (80%) of those whirlwinds of murder you just listed has a commonality with nearly every single job
chain being the culprit

[Saraide]

Wouldn't having less job balance just lean toward more metas and thus more class complaints?

It would lead to more pronounced metas for sure but saying it leads to more class complaints is potentially missleading. It would lead to more complaints from people that care a lot about job balance but probably less from people who would readily sacrifice job balance for uniqueness.

[Mikey_R]

fair points and a year ago i would have said the same, but i've been able to main dragoon, nin, mnk, dnc, and paladin over the year and maybe if i could show you just how diluted it all is:
each melee has true north
each dps gives a form of rdps
each dps has a personal heal and all melees have role heal and mit
also you are forgetting brotherhood from monk
selfish dps aren't really selfish, their party buffs are simply "hidden" behind a consistent adps

Going through these as I have labelled them, the bold seems you just have an issue with role actions, not the job identities themselves.
For Brotherhood, considering what you quoted was about mitigation, Brotherhood has no mitigation properties.
Now, the italics. Every job has some form of raid dps increase, except the selfish DPS, those are just raid damage increases in disguise. I hope you realise that, with an argument like that, it doesn't matter how you swing it, you won't be happy.

it's also a false sense of give and take with your tank example
basically each tank has a free life which is utilised every single boss in a raid tier
it's become the norm and is no longer an identity for anyone other thank tank
in reality invuln only makes sense (to me) for paladins only - now then would this become an identity for a class vs a role
and it would wihtout a doubt make paladin meta

And this is why, if you give one job something the others do not have, that job then becomes required. To get around this, you give all the necessary jobs this thing, just giving them a unique twist for the job. Suddenly, you have a job identity that doesn't exclude a job.

it's just honestly a lot of overwriting, a lot of buffs, and all for the sake of cookie for you, cookie for me, rather than "lets plan how each job brings different things to help the party as a whole and try to minimise meta"
whilst each class is currently self sufficient but it comes at the cost of the below
self sufficiency destroys being able to rely on others and identity is drastically lowered

You don't minimise META by making everything unique, that just creates a stronger META where jobs will be more favourable for certain fights. Whilst I know this is what some people want, that is not SE mindset when balancing jobs.

[Imoye]

Wouldn't having less job balance just lean toward more metas and thus more class complaints?

Games are primarily about having fun. Homogenization of jobs is pretty much inherently anti-fun because you reduce diversity, and as a consequence, also reduce choices in playstyle.

People will always complain about class balance (which is also pretty common FFXIV) and there's nothing you can do to stop that.

Reducing the fun potential of a game because you are afraid of complaints is an extremely piss-poor and cowardly excuse (if it counts as an excuse at all). Complaints are a natural part of any game and should not be framed as a problem, but as welcoming feedback by caring players when something could be improved.

What ACTUALLY pisses people off is when devs don't adress imbalance and bad design decisions (hint hint: healer discussion).