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  1. #1
    Player Theodric's Avatar
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    Sep 2013
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    Kazuya Hagane
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    Cerberus
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    Reaper Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Rulakir View Post
    The souls on the moon before Hythlodaeus express a desire to either return to life or return to the star. I have no idea how that could be interpreted as anything other than trapped, especially given that was a fundamental part of their belief system. They may have willingly sacrificed themselves to Zodiark, but I doubt when they did so they realized they would be committing to a 12k year purgatory within him. Incidentally, Hythlodaeus himself uses the word "purgatory".
    Yep. If nothing else, when with the Scions willingly sacrificing themselves only to come back a few minutes later I can't say I care much for the idea that the Ancients should have been content to just sit around inside of Zodiark. Especially when the only reason Zodiark was conjured forth in the first place ended up being due to Venat's refusal to share the information she had of the impending Final Days.

    I imagine no shortage of Ancients gave themselves to Zodiark for the sake of their loved ones. There's nothing inherently selfish about that - and certainly, I doubt they would be pleased to find that their loved ones were then brutally subjected to genocide by some nutter masquerading as a 'supreme deity'.
    (10)

  2. #2
    Player
    Iscah's Avatar
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    Nov 2017
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    Aurelie Moonsong
    World
    Bismarck
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    Red Mage Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Theodric View Post
    Yep. If nothing else, when with the Scions willingly sacrificing themselves only to come back a few minutes later I can't say I care much for the idea that the Ancients should have been content to just sit around inside of Zodiark.
    The difficulty there is that the Scions were able to be revived because the purpose of their sacrifice – supplying the aether to make Ultima Thule aetherially tangible enough for us to traverse it – was complete. Their aether was supplanted by Emet and Hyth's creation magic, and so they could safely be returned.

    The ancients sacrificed into Zodiark (or equivalent aether, apparently) needed to remain in place until Zodiark's purpose was complete, and aside of any debate into whether they could have or not, the ancients did not achieve that. They may have just intended to leave Zodiark in place permanently if they couldn't figure out the base cause of the Final Days.

    I also have to wonder if – given that we know Hydaelyn was powered by the souls as well as corporeal aether of her summoners – this logically must have been happening with Zodiark as well. Are prayers enough to sustain him or is he (by design or necessity) also slowly consuming the souls of the sacrifices to power that planet-wide shield? Would he eventually need more sacrifices to "keep the shield battery charged"?
    (8)

  3. #3
    Player
    sidurgu-12's Avatar
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    Aug 2020
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    Limsa Lominsa
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    351
    Character
    Sidurgu Dazkar
    World
    Behemoth
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    Goldsmith Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Iscah View Post
    The difficulty there is that the Scions were able to be revived because the purpose of their sacrifice – supplying the aether to make Ultima Thule aetherially tangible enough for us to traverse it – was complete. Their aether was supplanted by Emet and Hyth's creation magic, and so they could safely be returned.

    The ancients sacrificed into Zodiark (or equivalent aether, apparently) needed to remain in place until Zodiark's purpose was complete, and aside of any debate into whether they could have or not, the ancients did not achieve that. They may have just intended to leave Zodiark in place permanently if they couldn't figure out the base cause of the Final Days.

    I also have to wonder if – given that we know Hydaelyn was powered by the souls as well as corporeal aether of her summoners – this logically must have been happening with Zodiark as well. Are prayers enough to sustain him or is he (by design or necessity) also slowly consuming the souls of the sacrifices to power that planet-wide shield? Would he eventually need more sacrifices to "keep the shield battery charged"?
    i think hes slowly consuming them but since he was supplied with a ludicrouse amount of souls its gonna take a while for them to be completely devoured.
    (3)

  4. #4
    Player Theodric's Avatar
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    Kazuya Hagane
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    Cerberus
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iscah View Post
    I also have to wonder if – given that we know Hydaelyn was powered by the souls as well as corporeal aether of her summoners – this logically must have been happening with Zodiark as well. Are prayers enough to sustain him or is he (by design or necessity) also slowly consuming the souls of the sacrifices to power that planet-wide shield? Would he eventually need more sacrifices to "keep the shield battery charged"?
    Lauront has made some detailed posts on the subject in the past from what I recall, so I'll have to go and look for them when I have more time. With that said, it was outlined during one of the recent Live Letters - the 'clarification' one, I believe - that Zodiark was protecting the souls within him and unlike with Hydaelyn, did not opt to burn through any of them.

    It lends credence to the idea, I suppose, that not only was Zodiark exceedingly powerful but he was able to shield not only Etheirys in his Sundered state but all the souls held within him as well.
    (11)

  5. #5
    Player
    Lyth's Avatar
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    Meracydia
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    Character
    Lythia Norvaine
    World
    Gilgamesh
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    Viper Lv 100
    It's always interesting to see how people work with incomplete information. Most of our knowledge about Amaurot comes from two time points. One is on Elpis, prior to the Final Days, and the second is in Amaurot itself, while the Convocation is deliberating over whether or not to summon Zodiark.

    There's a lot of missing information. Namely:
    • Who was the index transformation that triggered the Final Days, and what were the circumstances around it? (i.e. Who was their Kahlzahl?)
    • What discussions exactly took place between Venat's group of confidantes and the Convocation?
    • What was the circumstances around Azem's departure from the Convocation, and what ultimately happened to them?
    • What are the drawbacks to using Zodiark's powers? What are his upkeep energy costs over time and how were they planned to be paid? What happens to the additional souls that are sacrificed to him after his initial summoning, including the third set that the Convocation planned on making?
    • What was the societal impact of being tempered by him, and were people still compos mentis to make decisions about sacrificing their lives to him?

    As someone interested in lore, I'm actually much more interested in seeing the answers to these questions than I am about having the opportunity to pass a judgement. And I suspect the reason why some of these points are as yet unanswered is because of Pandaemonium and Myths, which is why you can't just simply fill in the blanks with your own headcanon.
    (13)

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