The lack of Pride seasonal events is super disrespectful to the trans community

[Enjuden]

That's an American psychology manual. That isn't universal.

This is what the WHO thinks as of 2019. It's not a directive law, but it does serve to set precedents.

Update:

I just read the code. It classifies it as a mental issue, yes... but it then says that the way to "treat it" is by helping the person go through conversion into their desired gender.

So they see it as "Oh, you're having issues related to gender dysphoria, so to help you overcome them, we encourage you to pursue the gender you want".

Source.

Well, someone that read it.

However, calling the DSM as not universal is not an exact thing due to the research the DSM does compared to the ICD. Is it used often outside the States? Sometimes. Does it have problems? Sure. It really depends on what pharmaceuticals and the relations with the insurance companies whether they use DSM or ICD as far as I'm aware. Do note that DSM 3 changed what the ICD does significantly, and that the DSM will not be going away because of the information the ICD does not have. It's a supplement to fill in blanks rather than something brief (if it is brief, I haven't read the ICD).

Does the WHO massively affect who can or can't get treatment for dysphoria? Absolutely. Just be careful what you wish for is all I'll say. Treating it as a normal thing means low priority treatment, so prices skyrocket. I don't think people realize when they cry out for these things regularly what exactly the consequences are. I just hope they don't have to go through the consequences of their treatment suddenly becoming too expensive because they pushed for what they have as normal. I am not saying that is what you're going for, but I am going to leave it on that note.

[Midareyukki]

Well, someone that read it.

However, calling the DSM as not universal is not an exact thing due to the research the DSM does compared to the ICD. Is it used often outside the States? Sometimes. Does it have problems? Sure. It really depends on what pharmaceuticals and the relations with the insurance companies whether they use DSM or ICD as far as I'm aware. Do note that DSM 3 changed what the ICD does significantly, and that the DSM will not be going away because of the information the ICD does not have. It's a supplement to fill in blanks rather than something brief (if it is brief, I haven't read the ICD).

Does the WHO massively affect who can or can't get treatment for dysphoria? Absolutely. Just be careful what you wish for is all I'll say. Treating it as a normal thing means low priority treatment, so prices skyrocket. I don't think people realize when they cry out for these things regularly what exactly the consequences are. I just hope they don't have to go through the consequences of their treatment suddenly becoming too expensive because they pushed for what they have as normal. I am not saying that is what you're going for, but I am going to leave it on that note.

?? I don't think I'm understanding. The DSM and the WHO's outlook on this aren't negative.

The low-priority treatment is literally to treat people like it's a thing they need to be encouraged to pursue. It's one of those disorders where it's like "It's not a disorder on its own, but the factors and pressure of society and blah blah blah coupled altogether cause stress, anxiety and other nasty things on the person. So if we work to eliminate that factor, get the person more comfortable with their gender dysphoria and be allowed to pursue what they really feel like, then all those stressful symptoms go away". You know, as in, "It's not like BPD or Autism, it's not something inherent to the person, it's caused by external factors which lead to extreme stress. Remove those factors, boom, no stress, no disorder. Let the person be happy."

And it can be done by something as "low-effort" as talking. And I say "low-effort" in the sense that it doesn't require chemicals nor over-the-top therapy. Just simple support groups and acceptance.
It's right there on the manual.

And even if the DSM does have an impact on the opinion of others elsewhere, a) it's still not universal, those countries can still very much have their own opinion on the matter, which they tend to have prior to knowing what the DSM says, and b) it's one among many. The WHO stating as much has a much higher impact rate on what countries feel like adding to their own manual than anything the DSM writes in it.

Because if the world followed what Americans thought on certain topics, they'd have a field day. If anything, it's the US that tends to study how other countries treat said topics. Off the top of my head: Portugal's way of handling soft drugs.

...am I allowed to mention the D word btw? Or are we still pretending the game the forum is based on doesn't say and show far worse?

[SeverianLyonesse]

?? I don't think I'm understanding. The DSM and the WHO's outlook on this aren't negative.

The low-priority treatment is literally to treat people like it's a thing they need to be encouraged to pursue. It's one of those disorders where it's like "It's not a disorder on its own, but the factors and pressure of society and blah blah blah coupled altogether cause stress, anxiety and other nasty things on the person. So if we work to eliminate that factor, get the person more comfortable with their gender dysphoria and be allowed to pursue what they really feel like, then all those stressful symptoms go away". You know, as in, "It's not like BPD or Autism, it's not something inherent to the person, it's caused by external factors which lead to extreme stress. Remove those factors, boom, no stress, no disorder. Let the person be happy."

And it can be done by something as "low-effort" as talking. And I say "low-effort" in the sense that it doesn't require chemicals nor over-the-top therapy. Just simple support groups and acceptance.
It's right there on the manual.

And even if the DSM does have an impact on the opinion of others elsewhere, a) it's still not universal, those countries can still very much have their own opinion on the matter, which they tend to have prior to knowing what the DSM says, and b) it's one among many. The WHO stating as much has a much higher impact rate on what countries feel like adding to their own manual than anything the DSM writes in it.

Because if the world followed what Americans thought on certain topics, they'd have a field day. If anything, it's the US that tends to study how other countries treat said topics. Off the top of my head: Portugal's way of handling soft drugs.

...am I allowed to mention the D word btw? Or are we still pretending the game the forum is based on doesn't say and show far worse?

Another similar "disorder" observed by the DSM and ICD is ego dystonic sexuality disorder. It's something that nearly all queer people develop to some degree as an almost inevitable consequence of living in an environment that requires you to suppress aspects of your sexuality. In the same vein as what you are saying, it is/was classified as a disorder and is still a diagnosable state not because it is any sort of illness or disease, but because it is a state of disorder that often leads to and is comorbid with other more serious mental disorders and illnesses.

Put more simply, trans and gay people generally aren't mentally unhealthy because they are trans or gay, but living in a suppressive environment makes them extremely more likely to develop certain mental disorders than straight people.

[Midareyukki]

Another similar "disorder" observed by the DSM and ICD is ego dystonic sexuality disorder.
(...)
is still a diagnosable state not because it is any sort of illness or disease, but because it is a state of disorder that often leads to and is comorbid with other more serious mental disorders and illnesses.

Put more simply, trans and gay people generally aren't mentally unhealthy because they are trans or gay, but living in a suppressive environment makes them extremely more likely to develop certain mental disorders than straight people.

Yeah, this sounds like it works sort of how Trauma does.

The issue isn't that the person is trans nor gay. The issue is how society treats those things. Enforcing strict rules to surpress them. Making it so that kids feel like they can't have these thoughts, desires, attractions, nor perceive themselves with a certain identity. Punishing them either passively by allowing bullying and discrimination to go through even if the law "says" they're allowed to be themselves, or actively by having actual laws discriminating and promoting violence against them.

Because then, those kids will grow up repressed. Repression often lead to disorders, from depression to other forms of mental issues. And like a Trauma, it's not the person's fault, but that of the situation they were in and the way that it scarred them.

So rather than villify gender dysphoria, ego-dystonic sexuality disorder, or be like "HURR DURR THE GAYS MADE IT INTO AN ANNOYING LIFESTYLE", people really need to start understanding why it happens.

It's easy to blame it all on people being snowflakes. Wanting one trait they have be the loudest portion of their identity, like some deranged egomaniacs.
But really, if you look at traumas or adults with repressed infancies, you'll see the same behaviours. When they grow up, they can manifest as them pursuing their repressed emotions, often unhealthily, at the smallest inkling of freedom.

It is annoying to you cis and straight people. For the LGBT+ people that know better and understand that their sexuality is just one part of the many things that make up them, they see it as problematic as well.
But those behaviours wouldn't exist if people were allowed to feel accepted and be who they wanted to be without discrimination.

And saying "point me to a law that actively discriminates" is no answer. Because odds are in the Western World you won't find one. But that doesn't mean that everything is hunky-dory. The law is one thing. It's implied everyone follows it but... come on, that's just the TOS you accepted without reading when you were born. Not everyone follows the law. And as it stands, there aren't laws protecting against passive discrimination, "gay" is still used as a slur for some dumb reason, and there's a lot of discrimination in the household and the community.

And that's what will cause this "trauma"-like set of symptoms.

...TLDR: Just play Montero by LilNasX.

[Enjuden]

?? I don't think I'm understanding. The DSM and the WHO's outlook on this aren't negative.

The low-priority treatment is literally to treat people like it's a thing they need to be encouraged to pursue. It's one of those disorders where it's like "It's not a disorder on its own, but the factors and pressure of society and blah blah blah coupled altogether cause stress, anxiety and other nasty things on the person. So if we work to eliminate that factor, get the person more comfortable with their gender dysphoria and be allowed to pursue what they really feel like, then all those stressful symptoms go away". You know, as in, "It's not like BPD or Autism, it's not something inherent to the person, it's caused by external factors which lead to extreme stress. Remove those factors, boom, no stress, no disorder. Let the person be happy."

And it can be done by something as "low-effort" as talking. And I say "low-effort" in the sense that it doesn't require chemicals nor over-the-top therapy. Just simple support groups and acceptance.
It's right there on the manual.

And even if the DSM does have an impact on the opinion of others elsewhere, a) it's still not universal, those countries can still very much have their own opinion on the matter, which they tend to have prior to knowing what the DSM says, and b) it's one among many. The WHO stating as much has a much higher impact rate on what countries feel like adding to their own manual than anything the DSM writes in it.

Because if the world followed what Americans thought on certain topics, they'd have a field day. If anything, it's the US that tends to study how other countries treat said topics. Off the top of my head: Portugal's way of handling soft drugs.

...am I allowed to mention the D word btw? Or are we still pretending the game the forum is based on doesn't say and show far worse?

The D word??? No idea what that is. Drag?

I was stating that if gender dysphoria was pushed out of being a mental illness, doesn't that mean pscyhotherapy (Hormones etc) go up in price in general? That was my point.

[SieyaM]

We already have Easter and Christmas events so why not a pride event?

[Aeika]

The LGBTQIA+ community is a tiny set of people with loud voices. Keep it to yourselves and stop shoving it in our faces. We don't need this.
Im not even anti LGBT, Im gay myself, but I dont need to flag it in everyone's face. I dont understand you people that make it your entire identity.

[Vav2021]

The LGBTQIA+ community is a tiny set of people with loud voices. Keep it to yourselves and stop shoving it in our faces. We don't need this.
Im not even anti LGBT, Im gay myself, but I dont need to flag it in everyone's face. I dont understand you people that make it your entire identity.

I'm glad I'm not the only one that fits into the LGBTQ category, and is frustrated with all of this. In fact, I've seen very few people in the thread that are anti LGBTQ, but are just irritated with how "loud" that community has become, and as you just said, people make their sexuality their entire identity. It's no longer "Albert, that happens to be gay" it's "The gay guy that happens to be albert." Nothing about it seems organically introduced in games or movies anymore. It always comes off like this:



Note: yes, I broke my rule, I came back to the troll thread. Morbius curiosity got me.

[Kacho_Nacho]

https://youtu.be/6RoP76_iUc0

hahaha! That's awesome!

Thanks for the laugh!

BTW... how did folks like the black bean mango salsa?

[Kolsykol]

I'm glad I'm not the only one that fits into the LGBTQ category, and is frustrated with all of this. In fact, I've seen very few people in the thread that are anti LGBTQ, but are just irritated with how "loud" that community has become, and as you just said, people make their sexuality their entire identity. It's no longer "Albert, that happens to be gay" it's "The gay guy that happens to be albert." Nothing about it seems organically introduced in games or movies anymore. It always comes off like this:



Note: yes, I broke my rule, I came back to the troll thread. Morbius curiosity got me.

Considering the female to male ratio in that pic, in media that'd be pushed on you as '' diverse '' lol.