Why do casuals act as if it's the end of the world when suggesting?

[Quor]

In from the cold's problem is that it was not completely clear even with context clues how to clear it without using a guide first. Unless you found the downed mech or the fuel first before trying to find the linear path out you were likely to get murdered by the machina near the exit without understanding what you were supposed to do to get past them.

In From the Cold is a common sense check. That is all. Does a person have the common sense to pick up on the very-obvious context clues the game presents to them and then act on them? Or are they going to continue to YOLO into danger regardless of the limitations they now work against?

Fanny Danny makes it quite clear that you are just a regular mook, shorn of all of your inherent power and placed into the body of the kind of NPC that you've slaughtered in the thousands. He then, also quite clearly, talks about scurrying about "like a rat." Anyone who is paying attention here can put two and two together just from the first fight and the discussion with Fanny:

1 - you, as the player, are now in the body of a faceless NPC instead of the god-killing body that is the Warrior of Light.
2 - the game shows you, again, VERY clearly, that you will struggle to even engage in a single 1v1 battle and emerge victorious.
3 - further complicating things is the now-apparent lack of health regen; we are restricted to med kits that we must scrounge for in the ruins of the capital city.

With this, the game is making it clear; you are NOT going to balls-to-the-wall this quest. You are going to need to avoid fights whenever possible, you are going to need to keep your eye out for scavenged items to keep your HP up and you're going to need to pay very close attention to any fights you get into in order to survive. Since even a single tempered imperial soldier is a challenge it stands to reason (or it *should* anyway) that you're not going to be able to take on any kind of warmachina, so when you come across the immobile magitek armor in front of a huge horde of warmachina the player *should* be able to put those things together and go "ah, ok, based on the experiences I've just had I can't hope to beat this horde without using the magitek armor. The entire point of why the Garlean people came up with magitek was to help make up for their own personal weaknesses as a people. It only makes sense, as an imperial soldier, to utilize this imperial technology to overcome the obstacle ahead. I should look for the key and go scrounge for fuel to re-activate this Reaper."

But that leisurely stroll of logic is, apparently, a bridge too far for a depressingly-high amount of people.

[redheadturk]

In From the Cold is a common sense check. That is all. Does a person have the common sense to pick up on the very-obvious context clues the game presents to them and then act on them? Or are they going to continue to YOLO into danger regardless of the limitations they now work against?

Fanny Danny makes it quite clear that you are just a regular mook, shorn of all of your inherent power and placed into the body of the kind of NPC that you've slaughtered in the thousands. He then, also quite clearly, talks about scurrying about "like a rat." Anyone who is paying attention here can put two and two together just from the first fight and the discussion with Fanny:

1 - you, as the player, are now in the body of a faceless NPC instead of the god-killing body that is the Warrior of Light.
2 - the game shows you, again, VERY clearly, that you will struggle to even engage in a single 1v1 battle and emerge victorious.
3 - further complicating things is the now-apparent lack of health regen; we are restricted to med kits that we must scrounge for in the ruins of the capital city.

With this, the game is making it clear; you are NOT going to balls-to-the-wall this quest. You are going to need to avoid fights whenever possible, you are going to need to keep your eye out for scavenged items to keep your HP up and you're going to need to pay very close attention to any fights you get into in order to survive. Since even a single tempered imperial soldier is a challenge it stands to reason (or it *should* anyway) that you're not going to be able to take on any kind of warmachina, so when you come across the immobile magitek armor in front of a huge horde of warmachina the player *should* be able to put those things together and go "ah, ok, based on the experiences I've just had I can't hope to beat this horde without using the magitek armor. The entire point of why the Garlean people came up with magitek was to help make up for their own personal weaknesses as a people. It only makes sense, as an imperial soldier, to utilize this imperial technology to overcome the obstacle ahead. I should look for the key and go scrounge for fuel to re-activate this Reaper."

But that leisurely stroll of logic is, apparently, a bridge too far for a depressingly-high amount of people.

Again, I already pointed out unless you come across the machina first it is not immediately obvious. I know I am not the only person who tried to sneak around the mechs the first time to get to the exit, several other people right in this thread said they struggled with it their first time through.

[pikalovr]

Again, I already pointed out unless you come across the machina first it is not immediately obvious. I know I am not the only person who tried to sneak around the mechs the first time to get to the exit, several other people right in this thread said they struggled with it their first time through.

yes and thats what we call this very simple thing called trial and error you know

and no the game shouldn't have to hold your hand literally every 2 seconds any person with literally any sense would go ohpe. i can't sneak past that large group of enemies maybe i should search the map for a way to deal with them or something like a camo upgrade you'd search the map come across the mech with fuel or the mech standing there. and go from there (you don't have a use for the fuel from the broken mech yet if you encounter it first. so it's 100% reasonable for you to not carry it around and put a giant explosive on you. only after you find a use for the fuel would it be reasonable to take it with you)

[Nethereal]

and no the game shouldn't have to hold your hand literally every 2 seconds any person with literally any sense would go ohpe. i can't sneak past that large group of enemies

The game shouldn't hold your hand, correct. But it shouldn't give you false direction either.

It tells you to go to the camp it doesn't tell you that you have to go to the camp in a very specific way and you can't just use "common sense" and simply turn around a take the long way around and avoid them.
Good games give you real options, to fight or to avoid. They don't misdirect you they simply just don't tell you.

It makes perfect logical sense to be able to simply avoid them if the game gave you real choice, it doesn't. It misdirects you.

[pikalovr]

The game shouldn't hold your hand, correct. But it shouldn't give you false direction either.

It tells you to go to the camp it doesn't tell you that you have to go to the camp in a very specific way and you can't just use "common sense" and simply turn around a take the long way around and avoid them.
Good games give you real options, to fight or to avoid. They don't misdirect you they simply just don't tell you.

It makes perfect logical sense to be able to simply avoid them if the game gave you real choice, it doesn't. It misdirects you.

it did not misdirect you how would you even get that? it told you where to go and placed an obstacle in your way. you can't fight or dodge through it cause your not your OP self. you have to sneak and be careful, it's not the GAMEs fault you tried to brute force a clearly bad/impossible situation repeatedly. or aare you saying the ending is also a misdirection since you "won" the fight and shouldn't have been blown up since you could've just walked away or not fight at all?

[Quor]

The game shouldn't hold your hand, correct. But it shouldn't give you false direction either.

It tells you to go to the camp it doesn't tell you that you have to go to the camp in a very specific way and you can't just use "common sense" and simply turn around a take the long way around and avoid them.
Good games give you real options, to fight or to avoid. They don't misdirect you they simply just don't tell you.

It makes perfect logical sense to be able to simply avoid them if the game gave you real choice, it doesn't. It misdirects you.

Ok, so, putting aside the fact that the entire quest area you are placed in is cordoned off by the Orange Balls of Thou Shalt Not Pass (and thus there is zero chance of "false direction" to be had):

You're missing the entire point of the quest; you aren't able to "avoid" the big confrontations because they are a part of the story. The fail states for each of those are so difficult to reach that you have to be actively not playing the game in order to lose. This is because part of the point of In From the Snow is to show you, the player, how ridiculously OP your character is compared to your average run-of-the-mill guy.

In the vein of "real options," if you could simply avoid everything and make a beeline to Camp Broken Glass then you wouldn't truly be feeling what the devs want you to feel, which is to say confusion, helplessness, frustration....all those feelings that so many people seem hell-bent on avoiding in this quest are the very things that you are meant to be feeling. You are not supposed to have a choice in how you complete this quest. You are supposed to have wild emotional swings, starting with the horror and disgust of being ripped out of your own body and placed into a new one followed by the shock when you see Zenos take up yours and go off to do who-knows-what to your friends. Then there's that faint spark of desperate hope as Fanny Danny sends you into the city center and tells you that you'd better hurry, but oh, do be careful, you're significantly more fragile in your new body than you're used to! Better avoid as many of the random mooks as possible, or else!

Then, being drawn naturally to the south west (because that's where the Camp is) you ultimately run into the wall of warmachina and the disabled Reaper. Your heart sinks as you see all those machina that you can't hope to beat in your current body, and you're meant to feel at least some chagrin at the fact that - were you in your own flesh - this whole thing would be a cake walk. But you've got that Reaper just sitting there, and if you can locate the key and some fuel for it then you might just stand a chance. Snaking your way back through all the hostiles, maybe engaging in a tense battle or two, your emotional state fluctuates wildly from one moment to the next. Finding some extra health kits gives you a measure of peace; you've got a safety net now, but you're nowhere closer to your goal. It's a small victory for sure but the clock is still ticking. Maybe you get lucky and stumble upon the dmg up and HP regen buffs, and for a few precious minutes you almost feel like you're in your own body again, no longer constrained by health kits and lackluster damage. But deep inside, you know they'll wear off eventually, so that sense of power and security gives way to a new kind of desperation; you've gotta find that fuel and the key ASAP to get the most out of your limited-duration buffs. Plus you're running out of places to check; you know there's gotta be some fuel here somewhere and with your new-found buffs active you feel a renewed sense of urgency to get that fuel.

And eventually you do. The key isn't hard, but getting the fuel back is a nail-biter, what with trying to dodge patrols, having to make yourself "helpless" while you carry the fuel and maybe even getting attacked. But you get it back, load up the Reaper and then....bliss. Absolute bliss, as wave after wave of machina fall to your magitek weaponry. Sure, there are a few tense moments, managing your cooldowns and using the right skill for the job, but compared to how you've been living over the past few minutes you may as well be a god.

And then it ends, that confident power high giving way to the despairing fact that you now, again, must hoof it through dangerous territory to save your friends.

That's the point of this quest that so many people seem to be miss. You're supposed to feel lost like a rat in a maze trying to find your way out, but the game gives you ample enough time that even if you search literally everywhere else you can still complete the mission before the timer runs out. But even with this in mind there is no misdirection of any kind. The game tells you exactly what needs to be done and provides you with a brief tutorial on what you need to do to get to your goal, complete with an actual in-game tutorial about scavenging for supplies from downed enemies. It shouldn't be hard to put those things together and draw the appropriate conclusions.

I can only imagine that people who died more than once to clearly unwinnable fights are the types to jump into a raging river in order to cross it simply because it's the fastest, most direct route, completely oblivious to the danger they are about to put themselves into. In From the Snow was made with the apparently-unusual belief that people would be able to adjust their thinking to accommodate for a new situation, and I guess that's just not the way it is.

[redheadturk]

The game shouldn't hold your hand, correct. But it shouldn't give you false direction either.

It tells you to go to the camp it doesn't tell you that you have to go to the camp in a very specific way and you can't just use "common sense" and simply turn around a take the long way around and avoid them.
Good games give you real options, to fight or to avoid. They don't misdirect you they simply just don't tell you.

It makes perfect logical sense to be able to simply avoid them if the game gave you real choice, it doesn't. It misdirects you.

^This. And Fandaniel telling you to "stick to the shadows" would give a lot of people the impression you can do just that, sneak around the mecha and get to the exit. A better nudge toward what you are supposed to do instead of just expecting people to figure it out on their own would be quite handy.

[Kazelus]

^This. And Fandaniel telling you to "stick to the shadows" would give a lot of people the impression you can do just that, sneak around the mecha and get to the exit. A better nudge toward what you are supposed to do instead of just expecting people to figure it out on their own would be quite handy.

So you are doing an instancied mission with a limited area to explore, the paths is completely blocked by a bunch of machines that are so many it's actually impossible to be in the rear of all of them simultaneously.
You have a magiteck armor facing them and shining like every "quest related item" since the start of the game and your first reflexe is to try to pass through the impossible instead of checking the shining armor that could help you ?
Plus, the game can't give you a false direction, since the area you can explore is quite limited...

[Raoabolic]

So you are doing an instancied mission with a limited area to explore, the paths is completely blocked by a bunch of machines that are so many it's actually impossible to be in the rear of all of them simultaneously.
You have a magiteck armor facing them and shining like every "quest related item" since the start of the game and your first reflexe is to try to pass through the impossible instead of checking the shining armor that could help you ?
Plus, the game can't give you a false direction, since the area you can explore is quite limited...

You don't understand. There were no AoE markers anywhere. Every dungeon teaches you to run in and engage. What do you want them to do, change up how they approached the instance after they died? Pay attention to where the enemies are facing so you can run behind them? Ask fellow friends/FC mates for tips? The instance was just too overtuned. :^)