New Endwalker dungeon is more of the same cookie-cutter bland dungeon design

[Imoye]

People are weird praising WoW's dungeon design for its non-linearity when the thing most people do whenever a new WoW dungeon comes out is they go on the PTR and figure out the optimal route, and then that's how the dungeon gets run: go this way, avoid this trash pack, skip this boss, etc., etc. and then anyone that tries to stray from this optimal way of doing things gets yelled at and yeeted from the group. I fail to understand how this is better than just designing the dungeon like that from the get go. Like, is it somehow better when a content creator designs the route you take thru the dungeon versus the actual designers designing the route? Help me out, here.

Because finding the optimal route is enjoyable in itself. WoW dungeons also have unique designs. Even if you're running through dungeons at maximum speed, you never feel like you're running through the same dungeon precisely because each dungeon is designed diffferently with many different mechanics throughout. In FFXIV every dungeon is literally the same with 2x pulls then boss. FFXIV dungeons are literally mirror copies of each other. It's lazy, backward design. This game arguably has the worst and most uninspired dungeon design of any current major MMO.

[Striker44]

Because finding the optimal route is enjoyable in itself. WoW dungeons also have unique designs. Even if you're running through dungeons at maximum speed, you never feel like you're running through the same dungeon precisely because each dungeon is designed diffferently with many different mechanics throughout. In FFXIV every dungeon is literally the same with 2x pulls then boss. FFXIV dungeons are literally mirror copies of each other. It's lazy, backward design. This game arguably has the worst and most uninspired dungeon design of any current major MMO.

I'm not sure you know the definition of "literally," since that would not be an accurate word at all. FFXIV has a mix of things that can happen, with some dungeons including added pat mobs, others have sequences of mobs vs. mass pull ability, the environments of each dungeon are unique and imo awesome (see Dead Ends vs. Vanaspati vs. Tower of Zot for example, and then compare to dungeons from other expansions).

[Imoye]

I'm not sure you know the definition of "literally," since that would not be an accurate word at all. FFXIV has a mix of things that can happen, with some dungeons including added pat mobs, others have sequences of mobs vs. mass pull ability, the environments of each dungeon are unique and imo awesome (see Dead Ends vs. Vanaspati vs. Tower of Zot for example, and then compare to dungeons from other expansions).

I disagree. Newer dungeons are all the same. The variations are so pathethic and insignificant that they honestly don't even matter. Gameplay-wise they're copies of each other wrapped in different skins. The devs have even said that the dungeons are practically the same design because of the trust system which basically ensures that dungeons will never be varied.

It's more a fact than an opinion at this point

[Roda]

I typically avoid running dungeons as best as I can, only doing them if I absolutely have to cap out on tomes. It's not that I don't like dungeon content in mmos, it's just that the formula is beyond stale by now, and it's creeping into insulting territory...

[marelooke]

I typically avoid running dungeons as best as I can, only doing them if I absolutely have to cap out on tomes. It's not that I don't like dungeon content in mmos, it's just that the formula is beyond stale by now, and it's creeping into insulting territory...

They are effectively designing everything around the Trust system. Jobs get "streamlined" so the AI can handle them, dungeons get streamlined so the AI can handle them.

If people being unable to complete dungeons without social interaction in a MMO is so important, maybe it would be significantly more healthy for the game to just outright remove dungeons from the MSQ (or make an entirely separate "solo" version), so that the solo players don't have to deal with them, and SE can actually design dungeons and classes for a MMORPG instead of what is quickly becoming a glorified single player game where the social interaction is limited to ERP in Limsa.

When I got into MMOs the main thing I enjoyed about dungeons is having to work together on an impromptu basis with people of varying skill levels to overcome challenges provided, even in low level dungeons (raise hand if you've ever wiped in Wailing Caverns because people tried to just YOLO it). That is what made dungeons fun. Now they're just tunnels that you smash through using at most 2 brain cells (need the 2nd one to keep the first one awake) and talking to anyone ever isn't even an option because "gotta go fast".

[RokkuEkkusu]

Frankly at this point, why are people complaning about this now?

People have had several years and opportunities to take the side routes for extra experience and gil. Yet many players still take the shortest route just to clear the dungeons, rewards for going to side rooms be damned.

The devs saw the pattern and ultimately made hallway dungeons the norm ever since patch 2.2.

At the end of the day, players tend to take their rewards and opportunities for granted they way they have been. As a result, dungeons are ultimately the hallway corridors we see now.

I guess people end up reaping what they sow for faster dungeon runs.

[Shurrikhan]

People have had several years and opportunities to take the side routes for extra experience and gil. Yet many players still take the shortest route just to clear the dungeons, rewards for going to side rooms be damned.

The devs saw the pattern and ultimately made hallway dungeons the norm ever since patch 2.2.

Ahh, yes, people declined to spend additional effort for less efficient gains overall.
The only possible conclusion: People just want hallways.

The rewards and quality of said siderooms are surely irrelevant.

[Absurdity]

and SE can actually design dungeons and classes for a MMORPG instead of what is quickly becoming a glorified single player game where the social interaction is limited to ERP in Limsa.

That's almost an insult to single player games, they usually have more depth than this "single-player mmo" design that XIV is devolving into, even older FF titles did.

[ssunny2008]

I'm not sure you know the definition of "literally," since that would not be an accurate word at all. FFXIV has a mix of things that can happen, with some dungeons including added pat mobs, others have sequences of mobs vs. mass pull ability, the environments of each dungeon are unique and imo awesome (see Dead Ends vs. Vanaspati vs. Tower of Zot for example, and then compare to dungeons from other expansions).

What´s so awesome to stuck in Vanaspati watching some elephants dieing over and over again? Or what is awesome about the others?

Having sequences of mobs VS mass pulls is more like "a holding back" feature. Good players could even go for all 4 packs before a boss appears, but hey... we SURELY need that wall between them.... or we need to stuck in an elevator with 2 adds, whatever...

The only difference between any dungeon since ARR is the art-design, but all of them play the same, some even worse with dozens of walls for no reason but time-consuming. Big pulls are even more of a fear than any dungeon boss out there. You´ve to be completely under-equipped to actually have some sort of a challenge. But such challenge lasts still in AOE or 123 spam. There is NOTHING good to say about dungeons in FF14 anymore. No unique experiences, not any good boss-design, not even rewards you want to have besides some random pet-drops you´ll forget you´ve them once you got them.

And no, it´s not just "now". SE just ignored and still ignores all the voices, hiding behind claims like "You wanted this..." as they do in several parts of the game. I don´t know which idiots ever said "We want braindead hallways, we want every class homogenized,....".
Of course, you´ll run any dungeons multiple times thanks to daily-roulette. Of course it´ll get stale at some point. But final? Dungeons are already stale once you´ve entered them the first time. And the reason everyone wants to play them "drive by-wise" is, because they´re nothing else than braindead hallways! You get the irony?

I know dozens of players, who would love to see some unique and interactive dungeons. Dungeons with bonus-bosses, special loot or recipes for crafting / gathering, even some more challenging dungeons.
But hey... this game isn´t popular because it has some well designed dungeons or unique features. It´s popular because poeple can afk all day long, spreading bots around the world and are able to finish 99% of the game with one-button spam. And of course... "everyone can get everything"... how have we been able to play games the last 20 years, which offered certain stuff only for good players or those who took the time and efford? Who knows...

Some poeple here should actually try out other MMORPG´s. A bunch of them will give you a real dungeon-experience you gonna replay because it´s fun, not because there is a daily-roulette to carry newcomers through the story.

SE has become from a "We rescued the FF14 mess!" to a "We don´t care, less efford + less time = max. income!" company. The only competent team is the graphical department, the rest just sucks.

[Marooned_Pilot]

Having completed just about every dungeon in this game it's agreeable 4-mans provide barely any to zero real player engagement at all. While there has been some fair attempts in Endwalker expac to trip up people like with a new mechanic and alot of work went into aesthetic appeal of some areas it still remains devs use the same old, tired pattern of three bosses with trash mobs in between - and once the hype dies out it just gets scooted into the list of already existing dungeons. Personally I like to see a reason for players to return to these areas because it plays differently than what's already out.