The Ancients still deserved better, after everything

[KizuyaKatogami]

But here's the thing, G'raha went back in time to change events that wouldn't result in the future still being destroyed. If we had gone back into the past and warned everyone about Meteion then what could the Ancients have done about it? Her sisters were already out scouring the universe at the time we arrived. The Ancients had no means to reach out to stop her, and besides she was made from Dynamis which was an energy that very few Ancients knew anything about. As Ancients they were unable to interact with Dynamis, but as sundered Ancients we could. Zodiark only prevented Meteion from destroying the world by strengthening the aetheric currents, but over time he would've weakened and the aetheric currents would've started to weaken again, then what? Start sacrificing more Ancients to give him the energy required to restabilize the aetheric currents? All they'd be doing is delaying the inevitable at the cost of more souls being sacrificed over time until their race would've been shrunk to too few in number. Meteion herself needed to be stopped and only as unsundered were we capable of doing that, not only that but our own suffering and passion for life to strive forward was the answer Meteion was looking for to put an end to her song of oblivion.

Except he acknowledged there was the possibility in changing the past, it would erase their timeline. This was something both him and Ironworks acknowledged but went through with it anyways. Why is it any different for the ancients? As for defeating Meteion, im not sure how many times i tneeds to be said, Venat had knowledge on it all. All she had to do was tell the ancients the truth, and almost undoubtedly within 12k years they could come up with a solution. If you really think a race that has strived in high intelligence and debate wouldnt be able to eventually defeat Meteion after thousands of years....i dont know what to say. To me thats being willfully obtuse.

Not to mention we arent even completely sundered. We're what, 9/14? Thats only 5 shards away from being fully rejoined. Yet we have 0 problems manipulating dynamis. So either the writing is absolute shoddy on dynamis, dynamis just immediately stops being manipulated once you hit number 12 or 13 or whatever, or its just something that needs to be investigated and honed by the ancients, something they had thousands of years to do.In the end though, its pretty sad to see they wrote themselves in such a corner by making the ancients so powerful they had to come up with an asspull excuse to try and weaken them. Not sure how anyone can find that as good writing.

[geekgirl101]

Except he acknowledged there was the possibility in changing the past, it would erase their timeline. This was something both him and Ironworks acknowledged but went through with it anyways. Why is it any different for the ancients? As for defeating Meteion, im not sure how many times i tneeds to be said, Venat had knowledge on it all. All she had to do was tell the ancients the truth, and almost undoubtedly within 12k years they could come up with a solution. If you really think a race that has strived in high intelligence and debate wouldnt be able to eventually defeat Meteion after thousands of years....i dont know what to say. To me thats being willfully obtuse.

Not to mention we arent even completely sundered. We're what, 9/14? Thats only 5 shards away from being fully rejoined. Yet we have 0 problems manipulating dynamis. So either the writing is absolute shoddy on dynamis, dynamis just immediately stops being manipulated once you hit number 12 or 13 or whatever, or its just something that needs to be investigated and honed by the ancients, something they had thousands of years to do.In the end though, its pretty sad to see they wrote themselves in such a corner by making the ancients so powerful they had to come up with an asspull excuse to try and weaken them. Not sure how anyone can find that as good writing.

Except they didn't. If that were true Hydaeyln herself would've defeated Meteion without our intervention and she was more powerful than any Ascian. On top of that we had great difficulty convincing Emet-Selch about the Final Days. Without any kind of proof Venat would've been ignored and shamed for trying to make herself out to be a hero of her people and our pleas would've gone unheard. Meteion was gone, there was no sign of her and Hermes's memories had been wiped, so there was no evidence for our claims that she had travelled to the far ends of the universe to bring a plague of death.

G'raha's travel back into the past wasn't one that he would be returning to the future at any point. His reason was to ensure that his timeline never happened so that people including the Warrior of Light didn't die. As I mentioned earlier if we went into the past and stopped the Ancients from dying out or being sundered then we would be unable to return to our timeline as we would've severed ourselves from it and have created an alternate one where we never existed. The Ancients would've had no means to stop Meteion other than to wait out the inevitable over thousands of years. Having not experienced life through hardships they would not have been able to defeat Meteion. It was through our struggles as sundered beings and yet fighting foward with hope for a better tomorrow that a field of Elpis flowers bloomed at Meteion's feet, correcting her judgement that there was no hope in living and that all life was doomed to end miserably and with resent.

[PawPaw]

Except they didn't. If that were true Hydaeyln herself would've defeated Meteion without our intervention and she was more powerful than any Ascian. On top of that we had great difficulty convincing Emet-Selch about the Final Days. Without any kind of proof Venat would've been ignored and shamed for trying to make herself out to be a hero of her people and our pleas would've gone unheard. Meteion was gone, there was no sign of her and Hermes's memories had been wiped, so there was no evidence for our claims that she had travelled to the far ends of the universe to bring a plague of death.

For what I think is the millionth time, has everyone just completely forgotten the Echo and the scene where she explicitly shows us how everyone in her time can view the events of the past by just being in a place where something has happened and reading the environmental aether? Not to mention the many, many witnesses in Elpis who saw all of us together. Not to mention that the Convocation can just look into your own memories to find the truth. Not to mention that she is a respected former Convocation member and not someone that would be brushed aside or ignored. She could have told and shown anyone the truth and they would have been able to see it for themselves. She chose not to.

[geekgirl101]

For what I think is the millionth time, has everyone just completely forgotten the Echo and the scene where she explicitly shows us how everyone in her time can view the events of the past by just being in a place where something has happened and reading the environmental aether? Not to mention the many, many witnesses in Elpis who saw all of us together. Not to mention that the Convocation can just look into your own memories to find the truth. Not to mention that she is a respected former Convocation member and not someone that would be brushed aside or ignored. She could have told and shown anyone the truth and they would have been able to see it for themselves. She chose not to.

They saw us but not the events at the top of Ktisis Hyperboreia, and again even if she did take everyone there and showed them the truth there is nothing they could've done to prevent the inevitable from happening. Meteion was already out there preparing her song of oblivion to destroy the world.

[KizuyaKatogami]

They saw us but not the events at the top of Ktisis Hyperboreia, and again even if she did take everyone there and showed them the truth there is nothing they could've done to prevent the inevitable from happening. Meteion was already out there preparing her song of oblivion to destroy the world.

This is literally a game about defying fate, something the scions themselves say but youre going to refute that just....because? In an expansion that talks about never losing hope etc thats literally what youre doing and what venat did. Considering the only reason we won being because of numerous deus ex machina's im not sure why its so crazy to expect equal treatment for the ancients, especially when they had much greater power and creativity.An ancient created meteion, it stands to reason an ancient could create something to subdue her.

[KageTokage]

They saw us but not the events at the top of Ktisis Hyperboreia, and again even if she did take everyone there and showed them the truth there is nothing they could've done to prevent the inevitable from happening. Meteion was already out there preparing her song of oblivion to destroy the world.

Being prepared for disaster would've reasonably made a huge difference.

Zodiark might've not even been necessary if the destruction hadn't progressed to the extent it had by the time they identified how it might be stopped.

For that matter, I'm left scratching my head over what manner of "preparations" Venat had even made considering how things played out.

[PawPaw]

They saw us but not the events at the top of Ktisis Hyperboreia, and again even if she did take everyone there and showed them the truth there is nothing they could've done to prevent the inevitable from happening. Meteion was already out there preparing her song of oblivion to destroy the world.

Many saw the group enter as 5 and leave as 3. They had memories of us as a strange familiar and could have pointed out places we had been seen throughout Elpis. There were numerous places that Emet, Hythlodaeus and the Convocation could have been taken to in order to get an idea of exactly what took place; Like the room in Poiten Oikos where we tell them literally everything for a start. Then Venat could have filled in the blanks since she WAS there for all of KH and knew exactly what had happened. There is no reason why the Convocation couldn't have been told. Hermes was a stupid excuse not to. Panic was a stupid excuse not to. The excuses are about as strong as wet toilet paper. About as intelligent as suggesting that we not share all of the information we gleaned on the moon because it might cause a panic back on the Source.

Blame the writers for introducing a laughable contradiction to their own story minutes before the epic showdown of the zone. And sure, Meteion was out there. So? It's not like we all (including Venat) don't know what Meteion was weak against. All of that information could have been used to pre-emptively prepare for what was coming. If only.