6.1 Kaiten Changes

[cjbeagle]

This is not a good idea.

Kaiten could function only because it couldn't spend literally everything. Otherwise, the more efficient skill would be the only one worth having on our bars. Increasing Kaiten's consumption to a level where it could consume all available Kenki rotationally produced would remove all resource management, not increase it, once one noticed this and promptly removed Shinten and Kyuten from their bars upon acquiring TG. You'd simply get a Senei and maybe a Shinten (which at that point you may as well just macro together, as they're only used once each per 2 minutes) per Ikishoten, with all else being funneled into TG.

The only way for a TG to provide any increase in management would be for it to consume less Kenki than you rotationally make, such that it is a preferred but limited action (only useful on Midare or perhaps Tenka, because simply replacing Higan wouldn't do shit). Following Kaiten's cost and efficiency, it could offer roughly 320 effective potency over the average ppgcd of one's combos including their value towards Shinten (as your uncapped spender). That ppgcd is 352.5 at present. At the 20 Kenki cost that'd allow for Kaiten to increase --rather than remove-- gauge management, one could therefore have a 670-potency non-auto-crit Kaeshi: Midare follow-up or a ~450 potency auto-crit Kaeshi: Midare.

Now here are the more fundamental problems:

1. Kaiten increases our apm slightly. A GCD Kenki spender reduces it. We feel slow enough as is at this point.
2. You'd turn literally every Midare into a two-step combo. TG would no longer be a burst tool or any form of novelty, but just part of the normal skill for all intents and purposes.
3. You'll have removed a burst tool, greatly diminishing Samurai's burst.
4. You'll have removed the capstone / pacing element of TG from SAM from levels 76 and 83 (arguably when SAM has the most actual gameplay going on).

Admittedly, I forgot to take into account the reduction in kenki generation when noting the cost - you're absolutely right that it'd need to cost less than 40 - probably much less - will update.

1. Agreed, I wouldn't want to decrease the APM - the proposition would be to have it as an OGCD as a replacement for Kaiten, so the APM would be based strictly on how much it costs and how much Setsu procs refund.

2. True. Personally I find Tsubame-gaeshi to be one of the least-interesting abilities in the kit - I'd happily add complexity to the core rotation at the cost of a 60s cooldown now that it only hits for like 20-25k.

3. The idea would be to shift potency back into Ogi Namikiri. Kaeshi: Setsugekka is only 640 potency, Gekko or Kasha + Shinten is 630 - it's so lackluster as burst that it's hardly noticeable. Our burst would probably increase without even buffing Ogi because we'd get more Kashas, Gekkos, and Midares during burst windows.

4. Yeah, but the core rotation would get more complex. Personally I don't care about capstone abilities, I just want the job to be fun. Tsubame-gaeshi used to be relatively fun because it was huge burst - 990 potency that could also crit - now it's completely lackluster and no longer deserves the space it takes in the kit imo.

5. Bring back Kaiten so we don't have to debate replacement ideas.