Just remove healers.

[Martynek]

Whew, God do I hate this post limit. Here are the compiled replies from my edited post that I was using earlier because of that. Apologies if it's long winded, it's several hours of discussion.

By your logic we should remove tanks as well.

As I said, you have four different gameplay options if you want to play the Tank role. You have one if you want to play the Healer role.
It would take minor changes to the defensive toolkits of DPS jobs to facilitate the removal of healers - But to facilitate the removal of tanks, you'd have to rebuild almost all of the game's content. Though I may wish otherwise, they aren't comparable.

If you want a game where healer isn't necessary, change game. What do you expect us to say aside from that, honestly?

As I already stated, the encounter design of the game does not necessitate the existence of a dedicated healer. With very minor changes to the defensive toolkits of DPS jobs, healers would become entirely obsolete.

But to just remove a class from the game because you don't like it?

I never advocated the removal of any one job, but the role in its entirety. You can keep playing White Mage, Scholar, Astrologian, Sage... they just won't be healers that are forced into parties that do not want them.

There are 4 healer jobs that are either pure healers or shield healers....To say that the 4 tanks vary enough to facilitate such a ridiculous argument to remove healers is laughable. I repeat my earlier statement. Your opinion on healers is worthless.

And all of them play exactly the same. Point me to the healer who has a radical gameplay departure from "Press 1 button, then press another button for 27-29 seconds" and I will concede my entire point and admit that you are correct.

[1]Ok, let's talk about "cleanse mecanics"[sic]
[2]Healer check from 1 Hp to full in order to avoid the "Doom" killing you
[3]or just Raid busters following them.
[4]P3S as exemple with the 1-2-4 doom kill WITH healing debuff that will most likely kill you because of the huge AoE Damage you'll get right after it,
[5]or even fountain of fire where you take 99% HP three time in a row?
[6]But yeah, you don't need healer to go through all of this.

[1]Universal action: Remedy. Removes a single detrimental effect from self. 20s CD.
[2]Universal action: Standard-issue Potion. Restores own HP, 2000 potency, increasing up to 4000 as own HP decreases. (should be about 25~50% of HP). 3 charges. 15~30s recharge (Adjust as necessary).
[3]See above.
[4]Healing debuff expires before you actually need to be healed for the following mechanic. See above.
[5]See above. If you actually knew about the mechanic you'd know it gives you a healing output buff, there's no reason that wouldn't affect this.
[6]Exactly! Good to see you understand, friend!
And just as a freebie, I'll throw in a problem you didn't address: What about deaths? In standard group content, all players receive two stacks of "Reraise". Each stack allows you to resurrect yourself upon death and gain weakness, as if you were resurrected normally. Any further deaths will necessitate the aid of another player, such as through Verraise, Resurrection, Arise, etc. Leaving combat replenishes all expended stacks of Reraise.

Not further responding to TabrisOmbrelame unless he starts demonstrating an ability to fully read and understand the posts he responds to.

You've yet to clear endsinger ex and you've only cleared up to p2s on tank roles only. I don't think your opinion on healers really applies. [...]
I also find it hilarious that comments like yours come from players like you that barely engage in end game content at all.

You know, Ransu, why don't you share with the class how you're finding this information? Why don't you tell everyone where you're seeing this. Go on, share with us. Do it. I'm sure it's perfectly legal and in keeping with the TOS, I mean, why wouldn't it be? Haha.

*sigh* nobody knows what using small exaggerations to make a point is anymore.

Well, I thought so at first, but upon considering how the issue can be solved, I genuinely believe that removing the healer role is the easiest solution to the problem that preserves the identity and spirit of the game. Which speaks more to just how absurdly dire the state of healing in this game is than anything else, but oh well.
Can healing be fixed? Yes. But it'd be a massive undertaking from the developers that would require both changes to the design of encounters in the future, likely the reworking of existing encounters for parity's sake, and a complete overhaul of the entire kit of every Healer job. The simplest solution is to give Healers the "Calamity treatment". Burn it all to the ground and start again with a different outlook.

[Ransu]

And all of them play exactly the same. Point me to the healer who has a radical gameplay departure from "Press 1 button, then press another button for 27-29 seconds" and I will concede my entire point and admit that you are correct.

Point to me a tank that plays radically different from their 1,2,3 combos and tank stance on or off? Your argument falls flat here because tanks are in the same boat.

[TabrisOmbrelame]

[B]


[1]Universal action: Remedy. Removes a single detrimental effect from self. 20s CD.
[2]Universal action: Standard-issue Potion. Restores own HP, 2000 potency, increasing up to 4000 as own HP decreases. (should be about 25~50% of HP). 3 charges. 15~30s recharge (Adjust as necessary).
[3]See above.
[4]Healing debuff expires before you actually need to be healed for the following mechanic. See above.
[5]See above. If you actually knew about the mechanic you'd know it gives you a healing output buff, there's no reason that wouldn't affect this.
[6]Exactly! Good to see you understand, friend!
And just as a freebie, I'll throw in a problem you didn't address: What about deaths? In standard group content, all players receive two stacks of "Reraise". Each stack allows you to resurrect yourself upon death and gain weakness, as if you were resurrected normally. Any further deaths will necessitate the aid of another player, such as through Verraise, Resurrection, Arise, etc. Leaving combat replenishes all expended stacks of Reraise.

Not further responding to TabrisOmbrelame unless he starts demonstrating an ability to fully read and understand the posts he responds to.

You talk about action that aren't in the game "now". It's easy to just make speculation when you base this on nothing. I can invente action too, It's not that hard to do just that (In fact, you didn't invented that, You just take things already in the game, adding CD, and taking the PvP healing option). You said that Healer is outright "Unplayable" in the current state of the game, So I guess you don't need all the action you proposed before, do you ?

Let me ask a question, Mister Big brain, How do you intend to pass a healer mecanics without healer Right now, without any modification, how could you even survive that ? Every shield, mitigation, potion and self sustaining ability wouldn't save DPS. It is know that "Full tank" Group may do it, nothing new... But not for DPS.

What YOU don't understand is that I'm talking about the design of the game right now, not in your fantasmagoric idea of removed healer. If you wish to remove healer, you better have some really good argument for this because you'll have to make WHM, AST, SGE, SCH Caster DPS. Since you want to just throw away healer, Let me see how you are able to make those 4 class as DPS up to level 90 with unique gameplay for each of them.

Again, Removing a role isn't a solution at all. You just randomly spit that out of your mouth without thinking about further consequence on what will happen after this. Did you even tried to make suggestion like Silver-Strider was doing for years ? Did you tried to make healer great ?

Ransu have a pretty good point. And I'll go even further, If you wish that badly to remove healer, let's remove tank, We don't need heal, because damage doesn't exist (Sarcasm in case you don't know what it is)


Healers need a rework, not a remove. I highly doubt that SQEX will ever remove Healer.

[Icecylee]

"why aren't you guys making suggestions to improve things instead of being upset and suggesting we just remove the rot and give everyone self healing tools (((" lmao as if people haven't been doing that for 6+ years while also being ignored entirely the whole time.

[QooEr]

Point to me a tank that plays radically different from their 1,2,3 combos and tank stance on or off? Your argument falls flat here because tanks are in the same boat.

paladin and dark knight?

tanks are kind of in the same boat sure but their damage rotations are all different beyond "this one has assize, this one has energy drain instead, this one has phlegma instead, this one has earthly star!"

in fact they dont even have the same dps pattern as each other, unlike a certain role i know

[Martynek]

Point to me a tank that plays radically different from their 1,2,3 combos and tank stance on or off? Your argument falls flat here because tanks are in the same boat.

Paladin:
Offensively, a constant rotation between combos. Upkeep a combo'd dot, use RA to gain Sword Oaths, Burn them on atonements within burst windows or drop them for alignment. Switch to a spell combo once per minute to expend MP and regain HP, all while semi-frequently using oGCD attacks.
Defensively, Has high %mitigation and a consistent trickle of passive damage reduction.

Warrior:
Offensively, Build up gauge by using Storm's Path to expend on Fell Cleaves while maintaining your Storm's Eye buff. Has few oGCDs and power is largely expressed through big heavy hits with guaranteed direct crits.
Defensively, has lower mitigation and instead has numerous ways of regaining their own HP, from a direct self heal, to a pseudo-lifesteal, to increasing your maximum HP.

Dark Knight:
Offensively, Use your filler combo to build up Blood to expend on Bloodspillers, while making sure you pool enough to use Living Shadow on cooldown. Very high frequency of oGCD attacks, constantly burning MP to keep up Darkside and deal extra damage while pooling enough for TBN.
Defensively, entirely nullifies certain amounts of damage and clever usage of the ability effectively refunds the MP cost. Very effective against magic damage.

Gunbreaker:
Offensively, a very busy rotation with several cooldowns, both GCD and oGCD, that need to be kept rolling. Fairly slow and static outside of burst windows but with a plethora of different attacks that need to be crammed into No Mercy. Cartridges effectively act as a fourth step to your combo but with much more versatility, allowing them to fit into the job's frantic one-minute burst.
Defensively, has something of a "bag of tricks" - Conditional healing, gradual regeneration, moderate %mitigation, Parry rate increases, even expending their own HP for invulnerability in the form of Superbolide.

The only real point of similarity here is DRK/WAR, and this was a point of contention for a while anyway. Even then they have a fair few differences, what with DRK's faster, oGCD-oriented gameplay, and WAR's slower, heavier feel.

Now for healers:
Press a DoT every 30 seconds while mashing a filler spell.
You get 1 extra button depending on your job: A rebate for wasting GCDs on healing (WHM), An extra GCD to throw in there once every 45 seconds (SGE), A gauge dump to make you stop healing people(?!) (SCH), or a card twice a minute to pretend that you're totally a value to the party that couldn't be harmlessly replaced by giving everyone else two more goddamn buttons.
Try not to break your 1 key from mashing it too hard.

If an entire role could be seamlessly removed by giving everyone just two more buttons, without redesigning ANY of the game's content, it is redundant and should either be removed or completely rebuilt.

[CrimsonGunner]

i said it once before, the road healer role is heading towards right now is oblivion wheter we like it or not (either SE removes it or the community will outright shun healers for being useless in groups).

no offense to hoping and perhaps seeing a glimmer of change but right now, as silver-strider said healers were given the least treatment of all the jobs that exists.

sge is simply sch kit without the clunkiness that was introduced.
the only thing sch got as an improvement is expidient(which needed to be sold in a LL cause the action trailer for sch was super lame) and the fairy actually responsive(compare to 6 gcd delays for the entire shb expansion).
instead of improving ast they added needless button bloat, ignored ast feedback and added rng out of spite instead of actual proper rng management.
all of whm gcd healing spells are basically the worst version of ast gcd healings, cast times longer then ast, mp cost higher then ast while his potencies are the same as spells even gravity compare to holy,gravity wins with being ranged and allow weaving while whm only has stun.

i am done with believing they will change, SE never even tried to proper maintain healers in jobs just throw something to the masses like dogs and see them eat the slops hoping it will quell their barks.
yoshi p actions only show further bias and uncare nature towards healers and it doesn't matter if he means it or not its happening with statements like "we havent found nothing to do to sch" after a lot of feedbacks or "go play ultimate" when regard to healer engagement, even in shb their fix to seraph was add 2 seconds while bahamut got his animation issue fixed.

my opinion right now is hope and believing SE fixing healers wont bring help anymore, if we really want our jobs to be properly taken care and maintain ,we need to abandon the healer role and let them revamp the role as a support perhaps or force them to actually work their kits if they want to avoid handling encounter design for all their dungeons/trials/raids to fit 0 healers and healers only mechanics

[ThorneDynasty]

Only WAR and DRK have an issue with overlapping playstyles and unga-bunga spammy bursts (and it's completely fine for 1 tank to play like that, so really the issue is DRK). And even WAR and DRK do at least have bursts. So that's 50%/75% of the tanks being basically fine compared to 0% of the healers. And no, I refuse to call blood lily and energy drain optimizations proper bursts.

[Colt47]

They did talk about this before when people were mentioning how other competing games made healer sort of like how we have tanks, where they dps but also provide healing. Basically, they can't get rid of healers as they are because they'd have to nerf dps across the board for all dps and tanks just to balance out the fact healers now are expected to do damage, and then the fact the fights themselves are built around the healers having really insane levels of healing through comboing abilities. If they just buffed the heals to compensate the fights would turn into black and white mitigation strats, where a healer could heal someone from 1 to full super easy, so the only challenge is hitting enough mits so they don't fall over.

[ThorneDynasty]

They did talk about this before when people were mentioning how other competing games made healer sort of like how we have tanks, where they dps but also provide healing. Basically, they can't get rid of healers as they are because they'd have to nerf dps across the board for all dps and tanks just to balance out the fact healers now are expected to do damage, and then the fact the fights themselves are built around the healers having really insane levels of healing through comboing abilities. If they just buffed the heals to compensate the fights would turn into black and white mitigation strats, where a healer could heal someone from 1 to full super easy, so the only challenge is hitting enough mits so they don't fall over.

A) Having a decent DPS kit doesn't mean the overall damage has to be high, no one has complained that healers do too little damage.

B) Rebalancing DPS is something they do all the time anyway, so that can't possibly be an insurmountable challenge. And it's even easier to do on a party level - you just boost enemy health according to 2 party members doing x% more avg damage without even having to touch the jobs themselves.

C) You don't need to lower healing output just because you make room for DPS skills. Lower cooldowns, faster resource build up, etc. are all options.