*Spoilers* Anyone feel joining Emet would have been better

[Alleo]

Like, it's baffling to me that someone can even make a statement like this unironically. Obviously writers shouldn't uncritically capitulate to any negative feedback, and should also consider positive responses to their work. But I can't think of an example where refusing to engage with it at all hasn't ended in a complete mess.

And how do you want them to engage with it? They believe that the story they wrote was great. This is what they wanted to write. They could say that a part of the playerbase does not like it but what exactly would that change? None of us have a amount of numbers on who liked it and who didnt. Heck I would say that overall I have seen way more positive reaction to it but thats just my view and not a fact.

So I am not sure what is missing? They go out of their ways in interviews to answers some questions people have about the story. Do you want them to go into this lore threads and post about their view? And what if that view does not fit with what you want? Does this engagement makes it better? After all Yoshida did state that the Ancients could probably end up like the people of The Plenty and yet that was not a much welcomed information.

People can and should post their opinions about the story of a game. But I doubt that we should ever expect that our feedback should change something like that because this could easily spiral into a huge mess where nobody is truly satisfied.

Okay? You're not Venat, Venat is from a race of nigh omnipotent god-people who believe thier race have the right and responsibility to shape the future of thier world. Like Yoshi-P said, she's "very much an ancient".

What you would do or think hardly matters, since we're talking about whether or not Venat believes she was right.

Not only that but also we have absolutely no idea what she tried before the final days came the first time. When we fight her as Hydaelyn she afterwards stated that the stories of our adventures kept her going even after all the failures she had. These could of course be the failure of stopping a rejoining but it could also mean that many other plans were crushed before she became Hydealyn.

[KageTokage]

And how do you want them to engage with it? They believe that the story they wrote was great. This is what they wanted to write. They could say that a part of the playerbase does not like it but what exactly would that change? None of us have a amount of numbers on who liked it and who didnt. Heck I would say that overall I have seen way more positive reaction to it but thats just my view and not a fact.

So I am not sure what is missing? They go out of their ways in interviews to answers some questions people have about the story. Do you want them to go into this lore threads and post about their view? And what if that view does not fit with what you want? Does this engagement makes it better? After all Yoshida did state that the Ancients could probably end up like the people of The Plenty and yet that was not a much welcomed information.

People can and should post their opinions about the story of a game. But I doubt that we should ever expect that our feedback should change something like that because this could easily spiral into a huge mess where nobody is truly satisfied.

I'm at least glad they do seem to be aware that a non-insignificant number of people were getting the "wrong idea" from the story because it should hopefully indicate that maybe they could've handled things a bit better when the prior stories didn't have such an issue.

...And yeah, they did kind of just dig themselves deeper by clarifying points like Venat letting Emet-Selch and the others escape on purpose as well as her somewhat irrational fear that the Ancients were going to go the way of the Plenty when they were never trying to "eliminate strife" as they had been. Creation magic in itself ran counter to that idea considering that it was openly acknowledged that new creations could be horrifyingly dangerous, yet nobody seemed to get called out for it unless they were trying to break protocol by unleashing an untested concept into the outside world.

[Teraq]

I'm at least glad they do seem to be aware that a non-insignificant number of people were getting the "wrong idea" from the story because it should hopefully indicate that maybe they could've handled things a bit better when the prior stories didn't have such an issue.

...And yeah, they did kind of just dig themselves deeper by clarifying points like Venat letting Emet-Selch and the others escape on purpose as well as her somewhat irrational fear that the Ancients were going to go the way of the Plenty when their very human flaws most likely would've prevented them from ever truly reaching "perfection" even before the Sundering happened.

Short but very on-point post IMO.

I already disliked Endwalker's MSQ a whole lot, and the Q&A only made it worse in ... quite a few ways. Correct me if I am dead wrong, but I had the impression Shadowbringers was so loved because it did so much to humanise the villains and who they used to be, as well as cast doubt on Hydaelyn's intentions. Endwalker dramatically walked back on all of this, it is baffling. This game is really trying to tell me the Ancients would have become like these strawman aliens while simultaneously presenting me with a raid storyline involving a hostage situation fraught with family issues in the Ancient world. Perfect people absolutely well on their way to become perfect bored aliens, right here.

[Alleo]

...And yeah, they did kind of just dig themselves deeper by clarifying points like Venat letting Emet-Selch and the others escape on purpose as well as her somewhat irrational fear that the Ancients were going to go the way of the Plenty when they were never trying to "eliminate strife" as they had been. Creation magic in itself ran counter to that idea considering that it was openly acknowledged that new creations could be horrifyingly dangerous, yet nobody seemed to get called out for it unless they were trying to break protocol by unleashing an untested concept into the outside world.

The Ancients before the calamity might not have, but the ones afterwards? The ones that wanted their pure bliss back?

And I dont agree with Hermes solution at the end but I do agree with his question on what would happen if the Ancients reached their goal to create a perfect star? He even ask: Would we all die in satisfaction?

As soon as I saw the Plenty I was sure that this was a nod towards the Ancients. Just as there was a nod towards Venats later actions when Meteion talked about a planet that got rid of all suffering and basically still died because life lost its meaning.

[KageTokage]

The Ancients before the calamity might not have, but the ones afterwards? The ones that wanted their pure bliss back?

And I dont agree with Hermes solution at the end but I do agree with his question on what would happen if the Ancients reached their goal to create a perfect star? He even ask: Would we all die in satisfaction?

As soon as I saw the Plenty I was sure that this was a nod towards the Ancients. Just as there was a nod towards Venats later actions when Meteion talked about a planet that got rid of all suffering and basically still died because life lost its meaning.

The Convocation's repeatedly stated intent was just to bring back those who gave their lives to summon Zodiark, which in a void really didn't seem like that terrible of a thing without more context behind exactly what it was they were sacrificing. While their methods changed post-Sundering to something more blatantly reprehensible, the end goal remained consistent.

It's only in the post-Elpis cutscene that we're suddenly presented with these delusional Ancients who think Zodiark can fix everything for them.

Also, the jist I got from the people of the Plenty was that they threw away everything that could've been perceived as a source of strife, even the things that gave their lives meaning. That may have even included their very star down below judging from the fact that it's a barren, broken wasteland with what civilization was left relegated to a few isles floating above. As a result, their pursuit of "perfection" comes across as having been rather reckless compared to the Ancients who deliberated over decisions and debated at length in hopes of ensuring they were making the right choice.