Healers need an overhaul

[LeonKeyh]

Those were not my points, and anyone with a 4th grade or better reading level will see that.
You're not doing your own reputation any favors by posting such blatant misrepresentations of what other people wrote. But that seems to be the norm for Healer Justice Warriors, so I'm not surprised.

Unless you can demonstrate the ability to have a rational discussion on these issues, you'll will be lucky if SE even pretends to listen to you. People who blatantly misrepresent positions they disagree with don't deserve any better than that.

I can't have a "rational" discussion with somebody who isn't being rational. I swear I feel like you're talking about yourself with misrepresenting positions (i.e. claiming the fact that people are suggesting different ways to fix the same issue means that they somehow disagree with each other and that the "right" thing to do is nothing because despite a majority of people talking about issues with healing), grouping everyone that disagrees with you into some boogieman group to disregard everything that is being said.

You want to start over and have a rational discussion? Be rational, make your point.

That's because just saying "healers need an overhaul" is non-actionable. It's useless whining that SE has no choice but to ignore.
Unless there's a consensus on what's broken, and even better how to fix it, there's nothing productive SE can derive from this thread, because if SE were to adopt some people's proposals, it would just piss the other people off even more.
And y'all aren't even trying to reach a consensus, you just keep harping on your own personal preferences.

More misrepresentation; Everyone has agreed what the issue with healers are, just because people have put together TONS of ways to fix it doesn't mean that people don't agree with what's wrong with it, it means that they could do many different things to fix it.

Healer numbers have declined; Gameplay for healers is objectively the simplistic hitting 2 every 30 seconds and 1 until someone eventually takes damage. WAR you don't even need to heal at all as several players have cleared a ton of content SOLO with WAR (or with no healer). That right there shows that healers are near useless to the party. There is objective information about why healer's position isn't where it should be. Healers should be needed in a group, the majority of people agree with that. The people are just separated on what they would prefer the fix to be. Should healers be needed in a group because the group is taking more damage and would die if the healer wasn't there? Should healers add more to DPS or at least have something more fun than "2-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1" so they at least have more fun? Should healers be able to provide support to DPS for an indirect DPS increase? These are just different ways to fix the issue that healers are largely boring and are not necessary in most instances. If you're putting together a premade, you would pick an extra DPS instead of a healer.

Unfortunately for many here, none of the FFXIV healers are the healers they want to play, but they just can't quit FFXIV healing for reasons I will defer speculating about. So they come here to complain, like each other's posts for the feels, and tear down anyone who doesn't agree with the righteous of their cause, deluding themselves that this echo chamber they've created with their screeds and their polemics is reflective of a larger reality.

But I guess that's the new internet normal, right?

Again with the irony. "I like it so I'm the right one." You're the one in the echo chamber. I play healer because I enjoy it but that doesn't mean that it doesn't have any problems. You need to disconnect those ideas from each other.

[Deceptus]

More misrepresentation; Everyone has agreed what the issue with healers are, just because people have put together TONS of ways to fix it doesn't mean that people don't agree with what's wrong with it, it means that they could do many different things to fix it.

And more importantly:

IT'S NOT OUR JOB TO COME UP WITH THE SOLUTIONS.

We don't get paid to design the game.

Our responsibility is to detect the issues we have as paying customers (and we have, time and time again). We don't have to come up with the solutions as well. Saying otherwise is just passing the buck from the designers to us.

We've done OUR part, the dev team needs to do theirs. They can either meet us in the middle somewhere, or ignore us and watch the healers continue to leave.

Which is probably, IMHO, why they're designing systems to play solo.

Put simply:
During high end content like savage/extreme, the moment to moment experience of healing doesn't require much involvement from the healer, and this is something many of us do not find as engaging as we would like.

Feedback done.

Dungeons don't need a healer at all
The first 3 stages of the normal 8 man were completed without a healer
The first stage of the savage 8 man was completed without a healer
The first two EX trials were completed without a healer.

Healers are essentially pointless in current FFXIV content. That should be the feedback they are receiving.

Except when we tried to bring that up, our question was blatantly miscontrued and we were to told to go play ultimate if we were unhappy.

[Elesh]

And more importantly:

IT'S NOT OUR JOB TO COME UP WITH THE SOLUTIONS.

We don't get paid to design the game.

Our responsibility is to detect the issues we have as paying customers (and we have, time and time again). We don't have to come up with the solutions as well. Saying otherwise is just passing the buck from the designers to us.

We've done OUR part, the dev team needs to do theirs. They can either meet us in the middle somewhere, or ignore us and watch the healers continue to leave.

Which is probably, IMHO, why they're designing systems to play solo.



Dungeons don't need a healer at all
The first 3 stages of the normal 8 man were completed without a healer
The first stage of the savage 8 man was completed without a healer
The first two EX trials were completed without a healer.

Healers are essentially pointless in current FFXIV content. That should be the feedback they are receiving.

Except when we tried to bring that up, our question was blatantly miscontrued and we were to told to go play ultimate if we were unhappy.

Not to put too fine a point on it: That feedback is useless to developers.

So ya, I'm not surprised you get a snarky reply to it.

A warrior solod P1N. That happening doesn't mean that all classes except warrior are unnecessary.(although one of my friends would certainly agree with that sentiment...)

I get that you're upset... but throwing insults like calling healers 'pointless' and extremes around and using extreme outliers to "prove a point" isn't helpful to anyone.

I don't know why people struggle so much with the idea of keeping their feedback personal and self-reflective rather than speaking in extremes or generalizations of large groups of people they falsely assume are monoliths rather than groups of individuals...

[Deceptus]

Not to put too fine a point on it: That feedback is useless to developers.

So ya, I'm not surprised you get a snarky reply to it.

We've said how we feel the job is unfun to play. We're then told we need to be precise in our feed back. So then we give precise feedback that gets ignored. Tell me what more healers are supposed to do other than sit down, shut up, and enjoy whatever SE decides to serve us?

Because SE's own words say to do otherwise. They tell us to give feedback but when we do we're ignored.

A warrior solod P1N. That happening doesn't mean that all classes except warrior are unnecessary.(although one of my friends would certainly agree with that sentiment...)

After the initial Warrior clear, Paladin and Gunbreaker did the exact same thing. The only think holding Dark Knight back was how bad of a skill Living Dead was. I'm 100% sure they could do it now if no one has after the Living Dead healing change.

I get that you're upset... but throwing insults and extremes around and using extreme outliers to "prove a point" isn't helpful to anyone.

I don't know why people struggle so much with the idea of keeping their feedback personal and self-reflective rather than speaking in extremes or generalizations of large groups of people they falsely assume are monoliths rather than groups of individuals...

Please show me the insult I threw? I'd kindly ask you not to put words in my mouth especially if you're going to accuse me of something.

Having said all that, the root of a large numbers of Healers remains the same and has yet to be addressed or even acknowledged:

When Healing has been accomplished, Healers revert to a boring state. Healers are punished with WORSE gameplay for playing their job WELL