[Petition] Have Naoki Yoshida Play Healer and take off the DPS Gloves for a year.

[Absimiliard]

Viability =/= job design

My point stands. PLD's current design is a trainwreck. -16s FoF opener, mandatory held atonements.

[Nizzi]

I feel like forcing the lead dev to play something that isn't his style or to his taste is not going to lead to the outcome you're looking for. I don't really want the team's lead to be depressed with no stress outlet in game since he's been denied his preferred class. That sounds like a recipe for the long-term death of the game, not for making healers better.

Well there is one thing we agree on then, playing XIV's healers would definitely make anyone depressed and are a recipe for the long-term death of the game.

[Martynek]

My point stands. PLD's current design is a trainwreck. -16s FoF opener, mandatory held atonements.

Optional optimisations done to get the most out of your job in the top end of content are not the same as the core intended loop of the job.
The base design of Paladin is simple and intuitive.
Optimising paladin is janky and awkward.
I like both of these things, which is why I like Paladin and have mained it since I joined the game in 2.1.

You uh...do know PLD still isn't particularly desirable in most raid comps, yes?

Don't care. Viability != job design.
In addition, everything is viable. Who cares if it does, say, 5% or so less DPS? You can clear every single piece of content in the game with any standard permutation of jobs.

[Absimiliard]

At this point the healer role may as well be removed. Replace with support role, add a couple more DPS buttons to each healer, and force DPS to be responsible for their own survival for the most part.

Optional optimisations done to get the most out of your job in the top end of content are not the same as the core intended loop of the job.
The base design of Paladin is simple and intuitive.
Optimising paladin is janky and awkward.
I like both of these things, which is why I like Paladin and have mained it since I joined the game in 2.1.

Don't care. Viability != job design.
In addition, everything is viable. Who cares if it does, say, 5% or so less DPS? You can clear every single piece of content in the game with any standard permutation of jobs.

Those optimizations are barely optional. They are necessary for the job to perform at a reasonable level. Without them, your burst fails to align with raid cooldowns. This results in catastrophically lowered damage. The difference is significant enough that you become a hindrance to your team. Also, viable and well designed are not the same thing. A job can be viable and still be demonstrably bad in other ways. Whether or not the "optimized" rotation is intended is irrelevant. The fact we have to play the job in such a cancerous way to perform well is an issue.

[Martynek]

I feel like forcing the lead dev to play something that isn't his style or to his taste is not going to lead to the outcome you're looking for. I don't really want the team's lead to be depressed with no stress outlet in game since he's been denied his preferred class. That sounds like a recipe for the long-term death of the game, not for making healers better.

This sounds an awful lot like an argument in our favour.
He hates healers? Maybe even to the point of stress or depression? You can be very sure that the situation will change. Fast. We don't want him risking his mental health on trying to improve the game, but in the same vein, if a certain part of the game is such an intense pain point for the overwhelming majority of players that they would rather avoid the role entirely than risk burning out, it needs to be brought directly to the developers' attention.

[Martynek]

Those optimizations are barely optional. They are necessary for the job to perform at a reasonable level. Without them, your burst fails to align with raid cooldowns. This results in catastrophically lowered damage. The difference is significant enough that you become a hindrance to your team. [...] Whether or not the "optimized" rotation is intended is irrelevant. The fact we have to play the job in such a cancerous way to perform well is an issue.

Like I said, I like the janky rotation. It's fun to solve these things. "My fight or flight lasts just long enough to fit in an extra GCD? How can I best make use of that?" "My gcd loop is a bit longer than 60 seconds, what can I drop and where to help it align better?" etc. You see minor issues and learn how to overcome them to get the most out of the job. I don't mean any offense, but if you dislike the current Paladin rotation, have you considered playing a different job, and seeing if something else is more to your liking?

[Absimiliard]

Like I said, I like the janky rotation. It's fun to solve these things. "My fight or flight lasts just long enough to fit in an extra GCD? How can I best make use of that?" "My gcd loop is a bit longer than 60 seconds, what can I drop and where to help it align better?" etc. You see minor issues and learn how to overcome them to get the most out of the job. I don't mean any offense, but if you dislike the current Paladin rotation, have you considered playing a different job, and seeing if something else is more to your liking?

I can't help but feel you are missing an important point here. Your enjoyment of a job does not mean things about it that are objectively flawed shouldn't be regarded as such. Just like acknowledging those flaws does not mean I am saying I don't like the job. Though, at this point I rarely get to use it because of its performance. I'm always pigeonholed into playing Gunbreaker, which my wrists are really beginning to hate.

[Martynek]

I can't help but feel you are missing an important point here. Your enjoyment of a job does not mean things about it that are objectively flawed shouldn't be regarded as such. Just like acknowledging those flaws does not mean I am saying I don't like the job. Though, at this point I rarely get to use it because of its performance. I'm always pigeonholed into playing Gunbreaker, which my wrists are really beginning to hate.

If your group is making you play a job you find painful to play, I highly suggest talking to them about it, or if necessary, finding a new group. That doesn't sound like a healthy agreement. The "viability" of each job should never be an insurmountable barrier to your ability to clear, even in the hardest content.

That aside, I do not believe that the awkwardness of Paladin's optimised rotation is "objectively flawed". I think that there are flaws in Paladin's design, but I don't think that's one of them.

[Elesh]

Well there is one thing we agree on then, playing XIV's healers would definitely make anyone depressed and are a recipe for the long-term death of the game.

Good job intentionally misinterpreting my point.

If you forced me to play Black Mage for a year I'd be depressed too. Not because BM is bad... but because I wouldn't be playing WHAT I WANT.

ANY person forced to play something they don't enjoy is going to lead to an unhappy situation even if the thing you're forced into is seen as fun by others.

This sounds an awful lot like an argument in our favour.
He hates healers? Maybe even to the point of stress or depression? You can be very sure that the situation will change. Fast. We don't want him risking his mental health on trying to improve the game, but in the same vein, if a certain part of the game is such an intense pain point for the overwhelming majority of players that they would rather avoid the role entirely than risk burning out, it needs to be brought directly to the developers' attention.

Same response to you. It has nothing to do with whether healing is good or bad. But that it's not his preferred playstyle. And ANYONE forced into something that isn't their preference is going to be unhappy.

[Martynek]

If you forced me to play Black Mage for a year I'd be depressed too. Not because BM is bad... but because I wouldn't be playing WHAT I WANT.
ANY person forced to play something they don't enjoy is going to lead to an unhappy situation even if the thing you're forced into is seen as fun by others.

Well, we are talking about the game director here, not just a random player. It's kinda his job to make sure that the game is fun for its intended audience.