SAM players are quitting

[xAFROx]

I think I'm going to explode
Shoha II is your AoE Option, that you use in AoE Situations, Shoha do you use in Single Target Situations! the PLD Skill change is something that I would explain with Tank Gameplay dumbing down even further because no one cares and the new skill looks flashy or Tank do not have to think about AoE and Single Target Situation, just get the Enmity!
same with Senei and Guren, Senei is for Single Target, Guren is for AoE.. my only idea for Skills like that to change would be to drop resource requirement for longer cool down skills, like Senei, Guren, Bunshin, ect. since those Skills can be used once ever 2minutes anyway.
Your Tsubamegaeshi Idea is something I can see, though there they should change it that Kaeshi Higanbana works alongside Higanbana and potency adjustments
and about Ogi Namikiri, I wrote a Macro that does just that and works just fine:

/macroicon "Ikishoten"
/ac "Ikishoten"
/ac "Ogi Namikiri"

just copy&paste this into your macros, and press the button 3times in combat, gg.. and please before you come at me with "but it's a Macro, I do not want this", fine but seriously try that macro first before judging^^
I assume we get a Single Target Ogi with lvl92, in 7.0 anyway because Ogi Namikiri is AoE

There is alot of disagreement among us Samurai, but in One Thing, we must be clear, they have to Bring Back Kaiten!

You do realize that abilities can be multipurpose, right?

While having a situational button for choice of single target and aoe is fine, it's just a response on button consolidation options that are available versus outright pruning by removing abilities. Nothing would be lost if those types were combined as they share cooldowns and resources.

In the absence of having a single target ability, do you just not use the big hitting aoe on a single target boss? Like running SAM at 70, do you not use Guren if it isn't aoe?

[Martynek]

I think I'm going to explode
Shoha II is your AoE Option, that you use in AoE Situations, Shoha do you use in Single Target Situations! the PLD Skill change is something that I would explain with Tank Gameplay dumbing down even further because no one cares and the new skill looks flashy or Tank do not have to think about AoE and Single Target Situation, just get the Enmity!
same with Senei and Guren, Senei is for Single Target, Guren is for AoE.. my only idea for Skills like that to change would be to drop resource requirement for longer cool down skills, like Senei, Guren, Bunshin, ect. since those Skills can be used once ever 2minutes anyway.

and about Ogi Namikiri, I wrote a Macro that does just that and works just fine:

/macroicon "Ikishoten"
/ac "Ikishoten"
/ac "Ogi Namikiri"

just copy&paste this into your macros, and press the button 3times in combat, gg.. and please before you come at me with "but it's a Macro, I do not want this", fine but seriously try that macro first before judging^^

I don't think I can respect your stance on this if you're using macros for core rotation abilities.
You also don't seem to understand that tank damage matters with your "Just get the enmity!" stance, despite being about 2/3 as strong as a DPS assuming equal skill - they absolutely contribute to make or break DPS checks.

Also, I don't think we're getting a single target Ogi. It's not an aoe exactly, but rather a single target ability with falloff.

[RyuuZero]

You do realize that abilities can be multipurpose, right?

While having a situational button for choice of single target and aoe is fine, it's just a response on button consolidation options that are available versus outright pruning by removing abilities. Nothing would be lost if those types were combined as they share cooldowns and resources.

In the absence of having a single target ability, do you just not use the big hitting aoe on a single target boss? Like running SAM at 70, do you not use Guren if it isn't aoe?

ehh tanks already lost the ability to generate enmity without doing damage on the Global Cool Down (Flash), why does that matter? in an Situation where doing damage is bad but you have to generate enmity, like for example, the Add in A4S or the Plume in Garuda Ex, sure this stuff is old content and no body cares but that's the problem that led us here, would you rather sit on your resources in a burst phase because you are not allowed to hit that add because all your additional bursts (Senei/Guren/Shoha/Mumyo Shoha) are exclusively AoE, or would you just do your single target rotation and burst that target down? I appreciate to have these options because that's One thing that makes the Samurai Great! And at the moment that's not the case because they compromised on the Samurai's Unique Playstyle infavor of spamming Shinten disguised with the Lie of Button Bloat. On another Note, why do you want to limit the Samurai in it's Options?

at lvl70 Guren is the only Kenki Heavy Hitter, there is no option, of course do Guren at lvl70!

now thinking about it.. if they would delete Senei and Guren and just would buff Shinten and Kyuten.. we would lose our 2 minute Burst Attacks that line up with Ikishoten, which means even less Party Synergy.. it quite frankly sucks and the only good change that 6.1 brought to Samurai is that Enpi doesn't eat Meikyo Shisui anymore.

it also isn't about the abilities, the resources can be multipurpose, you can spend Kenki on AoE or Single Target, you can spend your meditation on AoE and Single Target

[RyuuZero]

I don't think I can respect your stance on this if you're using macros for core rotation abilities.
You also don't seem to understand that tank damage matters with your "Just get the enmity!" stance, despite being about 2/3 as strong as a DPS assuming equal skill - they absolutely contribute to make or break DPS checks.

Also, I don't think we're getting a single target Ogi. It's not an aoe exactly, but rather a single target ability with falloff.

I miss Stance Dancing to be honest.. and the changes the Devs brought to Tanks and Healers in Shadowbringers I assume was made to focus them to their roles, now do I agree with it(?), not entirely but wiping on esuna-ble Debuffs in a 24men raid had to be address (kind of like SE still didn't add B and C Spawn Points for the Atomos Part in CT) but Enmity is the Tank's Main Duty to keep track of. About the macro.. have you tried it? ^^ all I did is to put Ikishoten and Ogi Namikiri on One Button, the stuff that soo many Samurai ask for and I just did that with the Tools that the Game provides itself.

[Martynek]

it also isn't about the abilities, the resources can be multipurpose, you can spend Kenki on AoE or Single Target, you can spend your meditation on AoE and Single Target

When the existence of those abilities costs precious hotbar real estate for a non-choice (it's a simple flowchart - Three or more enemies? Press the AoE version), then it's better to move the illusion of depth into other abilities that can provide genuine gameplay depth.
In the case of your GCD rotation, I don't think that should ever be merged. AoE rotations and single target rotations flow differently. In the case of fire-and-forget cooldowns, separating them into single target and AoE versions takes up needless space. There's a reason most damaging level 90 skills have falloff AoE damage.

I miss Stance Dancing to be honest.. and the changes the Devs brought to Tanks and Healers in Shadowbringers I assume was made to focus them to their roles

I don't think there's solid evidence either way, but I would argue that it was instead done to disincentivize focusing on damage to the detriment of performing your role - or the opposite. With more oGCD healing tools for healers, adjusted fight damage timelines that reduce reliance on GCD heals, and no mitigation tools that come at the cost of damage (or vice versa), you can optimise your damage output without making the group suffer as a result, and optimise your mitigation/healing usage without costing you damage.

About the macro.. have you tried it? ^^ all I did is to put Ikishoten and Ogi Namikiri on One Button, the stuff that soo many Samurai ask for and I just did that with the Tools that the Game provides itself.

Macros do not work as normal abilities do. They do not respect your global cooldown, always requiring a minimum of 2.5 seconds to reset, and do not respect the action queue, meaning you have to press the button exactly as the action queue clears or you miss weaving time/stagger your GCD (even further in the case of macroed GCDs, since again, they reset after 2.5s instead of your skill/spell speed-adjusted GCD timer). It might feel "comfortable" to use at first if you don't realise these things but unfortunately the macro system in this game is functionally unusable for optimised gameplay.

[Foraet]

It actually wouldn't surprise me at all if each of the job kits were owned by a single designer - it wouldn't even surprise me if that single designer owned more than 1 job's kit design.

It also wouldn't surprise me if it didn't get "kicked back multiple times by QA" - I've never heard of a QA team that had the power to veto design decisions they don't like.

It's completely conceivable that a single person thought this was a good idea and Yoshida, reluctantly or not, went along with it despite playtesting [hopefully] including negative feedback.

I work in software development and I've had QA kick back plenty of issues that had to go all the way back to design. A good QA team is not afraid to push back on user experience issues. I've also worked in very small to very huge development teams. Huge development shops are loaded with bureaucracy. I have spent so many hours in meetings with designers and project managers and department leads discussing every little detail for every little thing. To think job design decisions by a company as large as SE with a game as popular as FF14 is done by one person and never challenged by anyone else is mind-boggling.

[Eorzean_username]

I think I'm going to explode
Shoha II is your AoE Option, that you use in AoE Situations, Shoha do you use in Single Target Situations!

do you also think that Dragoon should have Geirskogul II, Nastrond II, Dragonfire Dive II, and Stardiver II?

[Foraet]

They could've done literally anything to cut down on space without removing any of our existing kit. Look at all the feedback that came in before and after patch 6.1 dropped.

Feedback? Do you mean the forums? The forums are a cacophony. Most people just complain. The people who do give constructive feedback don't even agree. There are not even enough people here to be a proper sample of the userbase. Forums are just a funnel for people to complain who have one foot out of the door to have the illusion that the development team is actually listening to their opinions. The truth is most people won't notice or won't care about the changes. The ones that do will be over it by the time the next patch hits.

[Quor]

Feedback? Do you mean the forums? The forums are a cacophony. Most people just complain. The people who do give constructive feedback don't even agree. There are not even enough people here to be a proper sample of the userbase. Forums are just a funnel for people to complain who have one foot out of the door to have the illusion that the development team is actually listening to their opinions. The truth is most people won't notice or won't care about the changes. The ones that do will be over it by the time the next patch hits.

Hard disagree there. I saw so many first-time forum posters that I stopped counting after 100. If over 100 new people come to the forums to complain about a recent or upcoming change then that's a Big Deal from the perspective of the developers.

Now, whether or not they act on it is another thing entirely. But to say the forums were a "cacophony" or that most people "didn't agree" is just wrong; there is near-universal dislike of the SAM changes with the vast majority of people wanting Kaiten restored via a 6.08 reversion.

[Runeslayer]

What a way to dismiss a problem. The man gave very specific solutions to a problem without hindering the core of a classes kit, but no simply because it's been said on the forum it dismisses the legitimacy of the claim.