New Missaphenchair video makes great point about the direction of job design

[AsiTsurugi]

I read my tooltips... sometimes. lol
idk. I find a easy job/class more fun then a complex on. Again. Just me. I play a BM hunter and Ret pally in WoW, two easy spec by the playerbase.

Before the thought cross your or any one mind. I'm not a child wanting candy. I've play mmos since Dark age of Camelot. DAoC have melee positionals like ff14. I hated it then and hate it now. And hated how bloat hot bars were too. Macro to a different key was harder then it is now.

I'm also causal. I barely dip my toes in anything outside of msq/leveing, in any mmo really. I call it soft cap. Bit dungeon and pvp. Maybe a raid if I feel like it and can.

Well, you say you are "not a child wanting candy", but your post definitely comes across that way. "I cannot do the bare minimum on this one job archetype that I claim I enjoy because I am unwilling to learn some of the simplest job mechanics, CHANGE IT FOR ME!!!". Also a quick lodestone lookup says your samurai is level 51, so not sure where the "test play of sam at 80" came from

[SilverSkyway]

Sam on old toon I deleted. I started over right before EW release.

Bare minimum would be reading the tooltips and setting up hotbar. I think the simplest job would be dancer or Mch which I can play decently. Biased to the simple part as I haven't played anything other then three rdps and rdm at max. Even so I need a controller for the 'simple' jobs. If game don't support controller, I wouldn't had gotten far in the game as it is.

[cjbeagle]

I can't stand mdps at all despite loving to play melee in game.

DAoC have melee positionals like ff14. I hated it then and hate it now.

I'm also causal. I barely dip my toes in anything outside of msq/leveing, in any mmo really.

Positionals are just tiny damage bonuses - if you're super casual and generally enjoy melee, why not just give melee a try with the mindset that you're just not going to bother with positionals?

[CelestiCer]

I think jobs should be easier but that my opinion.

I disagree.

Good game design should provide friendly entry level content and jobs and ways for players to enjoy both casual and higher difficulties, playing the exact same job. A friendly skill-floor and high skill-ceiling. Players can enjoy casual content, requiring to not master a job. At the same time, players who desire higher difficulties are provided ways to push their jobs to their limits enjoying skill expression. That's Good game design.

Telling everyone all jobs should be easier, is like telling " Chess should only be played with pawn pieces ".
No wonder you're being met with disagreeing responses.

Or flip the coin, me telling everyone " Savage difficulty is the only difficulty that should exist ".
Imagine MSQ with Savage difficulty... that's absurd.

• Players desire easy jobs and ez content, but only easy isn't good
• Players desire difficult jobs and difficult content, but only difficult isn't good

Why not both? Good game design can appeal to both. Win-Win.

[SilverSkyway]

Positionals are just tiny damage bonuses - if you're super casual and generally enjoy melee, why not just give melee a try with the mindset that you're just not going to bother with positionals?

I still like to be useful to my team and try do a rotation. It not all on positionals so much as the buttons. It more of how many buttons there are and trying to fit them nicely onto a controller. Yes i'm using R+L/L+R (which are the same buttons) and double taps. Using Sam as the exemplar just didn't go smoothly with controller while Dancer does.
To that. I'm not saying every job need fit smoothly just my preference.

I disagree.

Good game design should provide friendly entry level content and jobs and ways for players to enjoy both casual and higher difficulties, playing the exact same job. A friendly skill-floor and high skill-ceiling. Players can enjoy casual content, requiring to not master a job. At the same time, players who desire higher difficulties are provided ways to push their jobs to their limits enjoying skill expression. That's Good game design.

Telling everyone all jobs should be easier, is like telling " Chess should only be played with pawn pieces ".
No wonder you're being met with disagreeing responses.

Or flip the coin, me telling everyone " Savage difficulty is the only difficulty that should exist ".
Imagine MSQ with Savage difficulty... that's absurd.

• Players desire easy jobs and ez content, but only easy isn't good
• Players desire difficult jobs and difficult content, but only difficult isn't good

Why not both? Good game design can appeal to both. Win-Win.

Yes. I agree to a degree. I'm not saying raids or endgame cant be hard. Lets talk about Reprise. One the hard content in game right now. Not for me but I think it's great content and was fun to keep tads on.
I thought EW dungeon/Trials were bit hard on release and almost made me rage quit. I hate EW dungeons still but the duty trials are fun.

[xAFROx]

I still like to be useful to my team and try do a rotation. It not all on positionals so much as the buttons. It more of how many buttons there are and trying to fit them nicely onto a controller. Yes i'm using R+L/L+R (which are the same buttons) and double taps. Using Sam as the exemplar just didn't go smoothly with controller while Dancer does.
To that. I'm not saying every job need fit smoothly just my preference.



Yes. I agree to a degree. I'm not saying raids or endgame cant be hard. Lets talk about Reprise. One the hard content in game right now. Not for me but I think it's great content and was fun to keep tads on.
I thought EW dungeon/Trials were bit hard on release and almost made me rage quit. I hate EW dungeons still but the duty trials are fun.

It's not for everyone. I get why you might think that, but personally, the only jobs that are weird on controller for me are NIN and PLD and probably BLM if I ever leveled one up enough.

SAM is close to the brink of having too many, but it currently was not at that point yet. Another expansion and maybe it would have, but considering the problem it has is mainly the redundant buttons of guren/senei and shoha 1 and 2, there's a lot better options for trimming on SAM instead of Kaiten if it were just about the amount of buttons bound or buttons pressed.

If you really think melee is too much for you on controller, then it just isn't for you despite your statement of preferring melee.

They should not be trimming down the basic kit just because you can't handle it. It's already balanced around being on keyboard and controller both. To simplify further would be to use the pvp kit instead and that isn't very engaging for pve.

Personally, I dislike when the game makes me control a different character because of the simple kit. It's too small for the length we have to play for, but I understand why that is.

On the off chance that someone doesn't play that job, it's so it doesn't overwhelm those folks. But as a player, on the player character, with the potential access to every job, those should not be simplified for the sake of it. It needs some kind of substance.

I wouldn't want to say it, but in all honesty, it's an easy game that's already simple enough. It should not be on the devs alone to ensure accessibility has not gate. There is a low skill floor already and what they're doing is lowering the skill ceiling mostly with these simplifications. That's not how to keep a dedicated crowd. If the system we engage with most is brought down to such a level that it isn't fun, then what's the point?

Msq? Can watch videos and streams for that if need be. Content? Well, I'm falling asleep trying to play correctly, then I'm not gonna notice the content.

Let's not pretend the current direction is okay for the game's longevity and actually take a look at how braindead the play has been becoming.

[cjbeagle]

It more of how many buttons there are and trying to fit them nicely onto a controller.

Using Sam as the exemplar just didn't go smoothly with controller while Dancer does.

Samurai and Ninja have 3 more buttons than Dancer does, so if you can't get that to fit, fair enough, but Monk and Dragoon both have 1 less than Dancer, so you do have melee options if interested (and Reaper is only 1 more than Dancer).

[ReiMakoto]

I still like to be useful to my team and try do a rotation. It not all on positionals so much as the buttons. It more of how many buttons there are and trying to fit them nicely onto a controller. Yes i'm using R+L/L+R (which are the same buttons) and double taps. Using Sam as the exemplar just didn't go smoothly with controller while Dancer does.
To that. I'm not saying every job need fit smoothly just my preference.



Yes. I agree to a degree. I'm not saying raids or endgame cant be hard. Lets talk about Reprise. One the hard content in game right now. Not for me but I think it's great content and was fun to keep tads on.
I thought EW dungeon/Trials were bit hard on release and almost made me rage quit. I hate EW dungeons still but the duty trials are fun.

I have cleared savage multiple savages and am close to an ultimate clear only using controller. If you think buttons dont nicely fit onto a controller with the current options then I literally dont think your trying hard enough. outside of some of the healers every job can fit very comfortably onto L+R R+L and those who dont fit that can be supplemented by Double tap.

Just to cycle back though, if you can execute a good rotation with no positionals you are far more than "useful" to your team. A person executing a perfect rotation sans positionals will only do at most like 5% less damge than someone doing perfect positionals. 5% is far far far less than the definition of "being useful", 5% is like nothing, youre very likely fine and if youre doing less than that, its not the positionals, its a skill issue.

[SilverSkyway]

Bard on the cusp of having to much going for a controller. I think need a small rework but nvm that.

I don't play melee in FF14. I play the three rdps and rdm. I tried Rdm being that it 1/3 melee but just not a fan of casting (and pvp rdm no fun for me). That leave the rdps which I do like but I don't feel powerful. But going to other games like.. WoW. I have a hunter (BM) and Paladin (Ret). I can play Ret but not fun spec as the playstyle sucks and is super slow movement. BM I find fun and easy. I always fall into anything that not melee despite liking swords. lol.

The dedicate going to stay no matter what the game devs going to do. Look at WoW. Whom going to leave are the content creators and their groupies and the silent players.

I like easy. I want play a game to relax, not be challenge.

[Shurrikhan]

Bard on the cusp of having to much going for a controller. I think need a small rework but nvm that.

To be honest, I would be fine with seeing Battle Voice wrapped into an earlier acquired, more flexible Radiant Finale instead; for Iron Jaws to be removed (since that'd mean less time spent on just our filler anyways) and DoT damage increased slightly to make up for the lost (difference between Iron Jaws' direct potency and) filler potency; and for Bloodletter (and its charges) to be converted into Perfect Pitch (stacks) upon entering Wanderer's Minuet, with Rain of Death likewise gaining an alternative up-to-3-stacks Wanderer's Minuet form and the 10 potency per second over Wanderer's Minuet that'd thus be lost made up for in some other way.

But, admittedly, that's mostly because the current Battle Voice is thoughtless and inflexible compared to Radiant Finale's design, we already have far too much filler and no reason to multi-DoT, and having Perfect Pitch stuck on a song slot just feels odd to the point of clunkiness while the BL/PP distinction is being arguably bloated.

I don't think Bard would be any easier or harder for those changes, just slightly more cohesive, coherent, and accessible.

(Of course, I'd prefer to regain reason to multi-Dot, and lower DoT durations, over removing Iron Jaws('s function), though I might even then prefer that simply using either DoT refreshes both on a given target, rather than wasting 1-2 buttons on that purpose.)