Is Pyromancer getting a perm ban for having Dalamud?

[VictorTheed]

When did it become 5?

Woah, a female Emet Selch?, she's pretty.

[BokoToloko]

If the reports are not valid, yes. They can ban your account. If the reports are actually valid. No

A mass report doesn't ban you from the game, an investigation on the allegation and verifying the rules were indeed broken, will. A GM can act on 1 report and ban you if you broke said rules, a GM can also act on 500 reports and ban you if determined you broke the rules.

A GM cannot act on 500 reports or more if you didn't break the rules.

A GM CAN act on the people reporting just to report because THEY broke the rules on how to use the report system to target someone who did not break the rules. And they have acted on it as well.

While I don't condone the enormous drama people in the forum has built around this, the thing about mass reports or, more specifically, targeted mass reports, is that they are more successful than you give them credit for. And the reason they can be successful comes from two factors: the search the reporters perform on your history and the information that the GM gets a hand on.

On the first, when a mob is determined to get you banned, they will dig ANY kind of dirt they can get their hands on and not just one tiny mod in the screen. They can look for anything that can get you banned (in this thread's case, they could simply take many of the clips Pyro lets out a slur or trashes his twitch chat) and, while people can try to hide as much as possible, they're not flawless and, in a streamers case, you are liable to get mistakes exposed in plain sight. On the second, the mob can not only dig that information but they can also feed it to the GMs in a way that misconstrues the context and gives a whole different picture than what it really is.

And this will happen with any online game, regardless of community.

[SeiyaSoiya]

If the reports are not valid, yes. They can ban your account. If the reports are actually valid. No

A mass report doesn't ban you from the game, an investigation on the allegation and verifying the rules were indeed broken, will. A GM can act on 1 report and ban you if you broke said rules, a GM can also act on 500 reports and ban you if determined you broke the rules.

A GM cannot act on 500 reports or more if you didn't break the rules.

A GM CAN act on the people reporting just to report because THEY broke the rules on how to use the report system to target someone who did not break the rules. And they have acted on it as well.

has there ever been a recorded instance of people who report and got punished for it?
the ToS is deliberately written in a vague way to make it so that 99.99% of all reports are actually valid

[OM3GA-Z3RO]

When did it become 5?

5chan is the Japanese 4chan, it's always been there.

[CaptainLagbeard]

From what I've seen Pyro's ranting, it was a 10 day ban... But they did say they say that people would be permabanned for repeat offenses. If he keeps coming back with Dalamud or other third party toolery on stream, he might risk it.

[QT_Melon]

On the first, when a mob is determined to get you banned, they will dig ANY kind of dirt they can get their hands on and not just one tiny mod in the screen. They can look for anything that can get you banned....

On the second, the mob can not only dig that information but they can also feed it to the GMs in a way that misconstrues the context and gives a whole different picture than what it really is.

And this will happen with any online game, regardless of community.

Correct, but did Pyromancer essentially NOT apologize for having mods, or did he own up and say it was his mistake and take them down?

Regardless, A mass report in SE's case only gives the GM more visibility on a violation.

Also let's not kid ourselves here - of course streamers are going to be the most visible case of taking action. Who in this forum or multitude of people are gonna stand up for Joe Gunbreaker that had his ACT up and got banned for visibly talking about parsing and evidence of it was in game when he got reported? Most people tell that person "Well you're not supposed to talk about it"

But now streamers had their stuff up, (and while again - I'm not arguing against add ons). VISIBLY had it up for a very large audience. So now is the perfect time for SE to take harder action. Because people WILL actually see that violating their TOS especially with greater visibility on content than before will have consequences.

10 day ban is HARSH, but I'm pretty sure quite a few people started turning off their mods or kept them out of the public eye after that. All this outrage over what's happening is just people being people. They don't want to see a favorite or a person publicly getting hit, but very few stood up when the little guys got punished for ACT or mods and got caught because they allowed themselves to.

I mean let's say that the guy was looking at porn on his computer? In of itself he's a grown adult and if he wanted to look at porn - that's his thing. BUT what if he left the stream rolling so everyone can see his porn collection? What then?

"Oh well he's looking at porn on Twitch, and isn't really hurting anyone" -pffffffft

I mean yeah people will dig and look for mistakes - it's unfortunate side product of being some kind of celebrity.

has there ever been a recorded instance of people who report and got punished for it?
the ToS is deliberately written in a vague way to make it so that 99.99% of all reports are actually valid

Okay so if they're deliberately vague how do you ALSO know that they didn't by your own logic?

I mean that's what people have been insinuating so much in this thread. "I didn't know what I got punished for"

The one instance I know that a vague punishment happened was account bans regarding SE's oversight on payment services. But they owned up to it and were supposed to have worked on it.

[Darkpaw]

Again, targeting him for a ban in game for his interaction with his twitch community is abhorrent behavior.

Want to focus in on the 3rd party mods, okay yep no defense. He used em, he streamed showing them. He was open and honest about which mods he used on stream many times. Period. That’s it that’s as far as the game is concerned and where any and all repercussions from the game should be centered around and nothing more.

His interactions with his twitch chat, whether you like it or not has nothing to do with determining whether or not he is “worthy of a ban” in FFXIV, no one forces you to watch his content, no one forces you to follow or subscribe.

If Twitch views his actions as an issue it’s on Twitch to take action, but those of you “i hope he gets banned because he’s unhinged, he’s mean to his chat, he does this or does that” stop. Just stop, that has nothing to do with XIV or this moderation team. Your personal preference is not justification for banning someone. You want that go find an echo chamber to live in and do that.

He may be a public figure, but that does not give you the right to be a pos and judge someone without knowing them. He’s said he will honor ToS, he’s removed his 3rd party plug ins, thats that.

[technole]

Pyro was already suspended from twitch once not too long back.

He tried unsuccessfully to get rid of the recent unhinged VoD off the internets, as bigger streamers like asmon got to it and did recaps on his poor behavior. Nonetheless, I'm sure he was reported again and I think he mentioned he got a note from twitch so he has every incentive to not be so cringe and break rules in-game, since bagelgoose got the axe on both.

[Darkstride]

Correct, but did Pyromancer essentially NOT apologize for having mods, or did he own up and say it was his mistake and take them down?

Pyromancer did not apologize for having mods, but he did disable and stop using them all. He said on his stream that while he thinks simple UI mods and addons should be allowed, he understands that they aren't and will not be risking anything by using them going forward. There were some chat comments still trying to linger in a gray area like having ACT run in the background where you can't see it, but Pyro disregarded it and said he won't be using anything at all.

[QT_Melon]

Pyromancer did not apologize for having mods, but he did disable and stop using them all. He said on his stream that while he thinks simple UI mods and addons should be allowed, he understands that they aren't and will not be risking anything by using them going forward. There were some chat comments still trying to linger in a gray area like having ACT run in the background where you can't see it, but Pyro disregarded it and said he won't be using anything at all.

Yeah kinda figured since Pyro was from WoW. Not a knock against WoW players, it's more from understanding that many people in other games/countries are used to having Add-Ons and it's not a big deal.

I get why people will try to defend due to multiple things.


1. Likeable Streamer. Despite his temper he's likeable. The more likeable, naturally people will feel they have to defend.
2. Presumption of "Evil" due to being a company. It's EXTREMELY EASY to make SE as a company out to be the bad guy. I mean, see how many people are following another likeable streamer's bad faith argument using the Discord example. I mean yeah okay going with the "They CAN" doesn't mean they "WILL" or even "WANT TO". There's a certain hands off hear no evil, see no evil. They still want your dollars. It's just really hard to stretch this for the sake of "victimization" that SE is just over there wanting to get rid of anyone for any reason due to a vague TOS. They still have a business to run.
3. Rebellion of authority, I mean it's just basically the same as 2. People just don't like authority in general whether it's company or otherwise. "You can't tell me what to do"

I'm not a big fan of everything SE does, I do love the game but I'm not playing it as frequently as I used to because you know health and all that. I think people look at the loud vocal community and instead of a "ahh yeah my bad, didn't get the hint, I'll keep it on the down low" it's more of how they're a victim. Community IS great, but there are groups that are just vocal and can get really ugly - regardless if you agree with them or not. They're not the whole of the population of players though.

Does that mean however, there aren't valid points about the UI? Dude this game is pretty damn OLD now so of COURSE it needs UI overhaul. JP UIs aren't always the best. Sad it came this way but people with add ons aren't entirely wrong either. That doesn't mean they're a victim though.


But not gonna lie this playing victim over all this is playing ignorant. There's that phrase "play stupid games, win stupid prizes". I just can't believe people especially major streamers for the world's first didn't think it wouldn't eventually happen.