PvP job rebalance suggestions

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I disagree with your Sam points. Sam's LB is the most counter-playable LB. At higher levels of gameplay even a 2-piece kill is rare because people learn how to shut down Sam. In comparison, Mnk LB for example has no counter play, if they want you dead you are dead. Imo every LB should involve this sort of minigame where there is a chance of countering or nullifying the LB. Drg has a similar counter minigame but people seem to be blind to the blue circle, which is why Drg is so good still.

In the end in CC there is very little difference between getting a multi kill as Sam vs a 1 kill on any other job's LB. Why? Because once you kill one person the engage is lost most of the time anyway due to the snowball effect of 4v5. Therefore you'd rather go as a job with a faster LB buildup and get constant 1-kills that you can easily choose who to take out, vs a slow building LB that can be whiffed and you're dependent on the opponent messing up.

SAM will only miss a Zantetsuken instant kill if they mistime their Chiten, which is user error, or if they get CC'd and focused down, which could be said for any other job. As long as you don't engage with and telegraph the clear intent of baiting out a Zantetsuken kill, it's fairly reliable. In any case, the instant kill is balls, the ability to go through guard can be retained, and the LB can just enjoy a damage buff without instantly dooming someone the moment they tap you.

[Vatom]

SAM will only miss a Zantetsuken instant kill if they mistime their Chiten, which is user error, or if they get CC'd and focused down, which could be said for any other job. As long as you don't engage with and telegraph the clear intent of baiting out a Zantetsuken kill, it's fairly reliable. In any case, the instant kill is balls, the ability to go through guard can be retained, and the LB can just enjoy a damage buff without instantly dooming someone the moment they tap you.

NIN can chain ista kill when your at 50% they don't even need to get hit sam can only insta kill after getting hit. Im lost
People complain about SAM so much but I literally wipe whole teams with NIN and I never hear anything about that
IF Mch proc 10% on chainsaw it would be worst then both of them trust me AOE death that's why I get the 3 but its pointless
SAM's LB kill potential is debuff 1-2 or 1-5 if they are bad
NIN is 1-5 good or bad as longs you can get the condition in time which is like 10s
SAMs debuff is like 3s and if you add the SAM mit buff time of 5s its only 8s
SAN LB is literally a noob stomp-er
Mean while Drg can party wipe anyone at 30k or less with out their buff with buff might as well spam heal and wish for the best
Mnk Lb comeback dumb fast and can kill one person guaranteed through guard if 24k health and without 34k as long as you us your buff

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NIN can chain ista kill when your at 50% they don't even need to get hit sam can only insta kill after getting hit. Im lost
People complain about SAM so much but I literally wipe whole teams with NIN and I never hear anything about that
IF Mch proc 10% on chainsaw it would be worst then both of them trust me AOE death that's why I get the 3 but its pointless
SAM's LB kill potential is debuff 1-2 or 1-5 if they are bad
NIN is 1-5 good or bad as longs you can get the condition in time which is like 10s
SAMs debuff is like 3s and if you add the SAM mit buff time of 5s its only 8s
SAN LB is literally a noob stomp-er

Would you consider the LB to be better or worse if the instant kill was removed, but the damage of it was increased and the LB generation was faster?

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Would you consider the LB to be better or worse if the instant kill was removed, but the damage of it was increased and the LB generation was faster?

It wouldnt make a difference I still would have to get hit and the enemy would have to be bunched up to have a chance

Let me ask you this what the difference between an enemy with 30k heal die instantly to one with 100% but they have to hit you first to die

One you die no matter what the other you live if you stop being aggressive AKA skill awareness

If SAMs LB was faster people would complain even more especially if it did good dmg

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It wouldnt make a difference I still would have to get hit and the enemy would have to be bunched up to have a chance

Let me ask you this what the difference between an enemy with 30k heal die instantly to one with 100% but they have to hit you first to die

One you die no matter what the other you live if you stop being aggressive AKA skill awareness

If SAMs LB was faster people would complain even more especially if it did good dmg

From the perspective of wider melee DPS balance, SAM is already strong. It deals consistent heavy damage, has good survivability, has two options for crowd control including a stun through Guard, and has three damaging gap closers to effectively chase down opponents. It does not need an instant kill on its LB to further prop it up.

Let's say that the LB's instant kill was removed, but the base potency was increased to 28000. It would then deal 35000 damage with a Kuzushi proc, nearly as much as Marksman's Spite, and still through Guard. This is more potency than Sky Shatter at its center. Would you then consider SAM to be a weak job with this change?

[Vatom]

From the perspective of wider melee DPS balance, SAM is already strong. It deals consistent heavy damage, has good survivability, has two options for crowd control including a stun through Guard, and has three damaging gap closers to effectively chase down opponents. It does not need an instant kill on its LB to further prop it up.

Let's say that the LB's instant kill was removed, but the base potency was increased to 28000. It would then deal 35000 damage with a Kuzushi proc, nearly as much as Marksman's Spite, and still through Guard. This is more potency than Sky Shatter at its center. Would you then consider SAM to be a weak job with this change?

This will only turn into two ways if you go this route

Kill the class if the pot are anything less then 25k
If we go off your number you might have 1 chance to save yourself but really what player competent would let you have that
and you will Have more SAMs wiping teams like a DRG trust it wouldnt make much of a difference

But i understand the issue fully not
You don't like the I win card SAMs can pull out when you goof and give it to them
Most likely in 1v1s cause in a party setting they should be melted or only kill like 1 -2 people

Heres some numebr
Healer have less then 50k health
Tanks have 60k health
Dps 50k - 60k health

if SAM hit more then one person you they are set up for death if the team is watch all it takes is a simple call out
Lets say solo they no have I haft you health button do you think dropping 2 heals is gonna save you
Like I said doesn't make a difference

But here a solution I think would work maybe I can stop hearing complaints on something so simple
Turn it into an AOE line (cause its not, SAM only hits whoever is infront of them at the end) but keep the dmg at 20k no buff to the dmg from getting hit just 20k
and they the cast time is only .5 sec
Sound busted?

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But here a solution I think would work maybe I can stop hearing complaints on something so simple
Turn it into an AOE line (cause its not, SAM only hits whoever is infront of them at the end) but keep the dmg at 20k no buff to the dmg from getting hit just 20k
and they the cast time is only .5 sec
Sound busted?

I think a moving line AoE would be pretty fun actually, if you could cleave a whole team in the same manner as a Sky Shatter might.

Maybe automatically throw in a speech bubble that says "Nothing personal, kid."