PvP job rebalance suggestions

[threadspool]

I have been frequently playing Frontline since 6.1, and surprising nobody, I have some thoughts on job balance and possible reworks. Let me know what you think.

DRK

DRK's method of dealing damage via Shadowbringer, dropping its own HP by 12000 for 6000 potency, is not rewarding enough to justify the risk associated with its use. A temporary, non-stacking shield equal to the HP lost would be helpful in keeping it alive without fully eliminating the risk involved with spamming Shadowbringer out to burst damage quickly.

GNB

GNB faces a great many issues, but I will address some of the more glaring ones.

Draw and Junction being dependent on which enemies are available causes frustration. For example, if an enemy party does not have a tank, Junction Tank is made completely unavailable to you, and you lose the ability to utilize Nebula and the shielding offered with Continuation. If you're already holding onto an ideal Junction, you could be forced to forego the extra Powder Barrel proc offered by Draw and Junction in order to have the right Junction for the situation. This sort of compromise is not fun or engaging, and I would much prefer that Draw and Junction be usable in some other fashion, perhaps by drawing from teammates or as a toggle without a target.

GNB should have crowd control immunity during the channeling of Relentless Rush. It is already a risky LB to use, requiring that you remain in melee range of your targets and becoming effectively useless if crowd control is used on you, but this is made worse by an inability to cancel the LB to use Recuperate or Purify should a Stun or Miracle of Nature be applied. If WAR can have crowd control immunity during its 15s of Inner Release, it would not be unreasonable to lend the same sort of effect to the 4s of Relentless Rush.

Junction Healer's Continuation effect is a scant 10y in radius, which will have severely limited effect in teamfights by generating no healing for anyone who isn't immediately next to you. An increase in the heal's range would be welcome, along with a small increase in its healing potency such that it makes more of a difference and causes Junction Healer to be a more attractive buff as a result.

WHM

Miracle of Nature is too strong as an uncleansable 2s silence every 25s, able to shut down pushes and cause secured kills on its own. A reduction in its duration or an increase in its cooldown is necessary.

With Afflatus Purgation being an exceptionally strong LB, it should have its generation speed or its damage decreased. A 40y LB with 18000 potency in damage, a stun, a buff, and healing should not be available so frequently.

[threadspool]

SGE

Compared to other healers, SGE is unable to deal its heaviest damage in a safe manner, and also cannot reasonably save its teammates should they be targeted.

Dosis having lower potency compared to other healer spells is unnecessary. The rationale for this could be that it heals a Kardia target at the same time, but having full uptime is typically unsafe in PvP, and Kardia's scant 2000 potency heal is certainly not enough to help a party member in danger.

Having to swap Kardia to a party member under threat and follow up with a Eukrasia and a Dosis takes too long and is too cumbersome to execute, and requires an enemy target within range. Adding a shielding/healing effect to Icarus targets in the same manner as MNK's Thunderclap would help it be more reactive. In situations where it's too dangerous to even get within 25y to engage, this sort of effect would give SGE any kind of option to save party members from death via damage over time effects.

MNK

Riddle of Earth does not contribute very much to MNK's survivability compared to SAM and DRG. Making Riddle of Earth automatically activate at the end of its duration would help it be more usable, while adding some light amount of damage reduction will help MNK be more competitive as a melee DPS.

SAM

Zantetsuken is too strong for too little effort. It's exceptionally easy to activate Chiten and proc Kuzushi for an instant kill, and even if your opponents notice Chiten being active, the alternative is that they let you go untouched for 5s. Kuzushi can increase Zantetsuken's damage (by 50%?), but it should not enable executions for next to nothing, with very little opportunity for counter-play.

MCH

Chain Saw's Analysis effect is not useful. I don't find the potential instant kill to be rewarding, and it is by no means reliable enough that Analysis should be consistently used on it. Consider changing it to cause damage over time, a damage reduction debuff, or something else with more consistent utility.

[threadspool]

DNC

Honing Dance is exceptionally unrewarding and janky for the risk in its use. By channeling it, you remove your ability to use Recuperate or Purify should you be targeted, and you are unable to provide any other assistance to your party for its mandatory 2s channeling time. In order to build Acclaim stacks, the DNC must also be in 5y range of a target hitting it for every tick, which is an extremely dangerous maneuver for a physical ranged DPS.

For all this, Honing Ovation provides very lackluster gains. It is absurd that it will output just 5000 potency for taking the risk to fully stack Acclaim. To make this skill more usable, Honing Dance's channel should have a wider range to facilitate easier stack build, the potency of Ovation should be increased to reward the risk involved, and the tooltip of Honing Dance should mention that Acclaim is only built up on target hits.

Contradance's animation lock is too long at around 1.5s. This causes heavy risk to you during its cast for what is potentially a very short debuff, and it is too difficult to effectively extend the effect of the Charm debuff. Consider reducing the animation lock of the LB cast to facilitate easier use, or adding another effect to Charm such as an increase in damage taken to make the LB more worth using for the danger it presents.

SMN

It is no secret by this point that Megaflare causes too much damage in too wide of an area for too little effort, even without premade stacks of SMNs killing whole frontline teams in an instant. Megaflare's potency should be reduced, and if this causes too much of a hit to SMN's output, this potency can be moved to Astral Impulse, which requires more active participation on the part of the SMN and provides opportunity for counter-play.

Phoenix should also be made a more attractive alternative to Bahamut, and I believe that while Everlasting Flight is strong, Fountain of Fire is too weak in comparison to Astral Impulse, and Enkindle Phoenix does not deal enough damage over time compared to Akh Morn's upfront damage to make it worth using.

BLM

BLM's role as an AoE powerhouse is diminished by its inability to meaningfully hit multiple targets even under Soul Resonance. A small increase to the radius of Flare and Freeze will help it more readily turn teamfights in its team's favour.

[PotatoTree]

I disagree with your Sam points. Sam's LB is the most counter-playable LB. At higher levels of gameplay even a 2-piece kill is rare because people learn how to shut down Sam. In comparison, Mnk LB for example has no counter play, if they want you dead you are dead. Imo every LB should involve this sort of minigame where there is a chance of countering or nullifying the LB. Drg has a similar counter minigame but people seem to be blind to the blue circle, which is why Drg is so good still.

In the end in CC there is very little difference between getting a multi kill as Sam vs a 1 kill on any other job's LB. Why? Because once you kill one person the engage is lost most of the time anyway due to the snowball effect of 4v5. Therefore you'd rather go as a job with a faster LB buildup and get constant 1-kills that you can easily choose who to take out, vs a slow building LB that can be whiffed and you're dependent on the opponent messing up.

[GayRobot]

Chain Saw's Analysis effect is not useful. I don't find the potential instant kill to be rewarding, and it is by no means reliable enough that Analysis should be consistently used on it. Consider changing it to cause damage over time, a damage reduction debuff, or something else with more consistent utility.

I wonder if "instantly enter Hypercharge" would be too strong (or too weak) of an effect for Analysis+Chainsaw. The inability to "pool" Heat makes fast on-demand Wildfires pretty unreliable—providing an extra lever to manage Heat would give the job a little more to think about, while rewarding players who can get the most out of their "extra" stacks.

[Vatom]

I disagree with your Sam points. Sam's LB is the most counter-playable LB. At higher levels of gameplay even a 2-piece kill is rare because people learn how to shut down Sam. In comparison, Mnk LB for example has no counter play, if they want you dead you are dead. Imo every LB should involve this sort of minigame where there is a chance of countering or nullifying the LB. Drg has a similar counter minigame but people seem to be blind to the blue circle, which is why Drg is so good still.

In the end in CC there is very little difference between getting a multi kill as Sam vs a 1 kill on any other job's LB. Why? Because once you kill one person the engage is lost most of the time anyway due to the snowball effect of 4v5. Therefore you'd rather go as a job with a faster LB buildup and get constant 1-kills that you can easily choose who to take out, vs a slow building LB that can be whiffed and you're dependent on the opponent messing up.

Thank you I didn't have to say it myself

[Vatom]

I wonder if "instantly enter Hypercharge" would be too strong (or too weak) of an effect for Analysis+Chainsaw. The inability to "pool" Heat makes fast on-demand Wildfires pretty unreliable—providing an extra lever to manage Heat would give the job a little more to think about, while rewarding players who can get the most out of their "extra" stacks.

Maybe turn your shotgun into autocross bow would be cool but honestly just make it do a dot is a solid idea
or make it do 15k and be done with it is also a viable option

[threadspool]

I disagree with your Sam points. Sam's LB is the most counter-playable LB. At higher levels of gameplay even a 2-piece kill is rare because people learn how to shut down Sam. In comparison, Mnk LB for example has no counter play, if they want you dead you are dead. Imo every LB should involve this sort of minigame where there is a chance of countering or nullifying the LB. Drg has a similar counter minigame but people seem to be blind to the blue circle, which is why Drg is so good still.

In the end in CC there is very little difference between getting a multi kill as Sam vs a 1 kill on any other job's LB. Why? Because once you kill one person the engage is lost most of the time anyway due to the snowball effect of 4v5. Therefore you'd rather go as a job with a faster LB buildup and get constant 1-kills that you can easily choose who to take out, vs a slow building LB that can be whiffed and you're dependent on the opponent messing up.

SAM will only miss a Zantetsuken instant kill if they mistime their Chiten, which is user error, or if they get CC'd and focused down, which could be said for any other job. As long as you don't engage with and telegraph the clear intent of baiting out a Zantetsuken kill, it's fairly reliable. In any case, the instant kill is balls, the ability to go through guard can be retained, and the LB can just enjoy a damage buff without instantly dooming someone the moment they tap you.

[Vatom]

SAM will only miss a Zantetsuken instant kill if they mistime their Chiten, which is user error, or if they get CC'd and focused down, which could be said for any other job. As long as you don't engage with and telegraph the clear intent of baiting out a Zantetsuken kill, it's fairly reliable. In any case, the instant kill is balls, the ability to go through guard can be retained, and the LB can just enjoy a damage buff without instantly dooming someone the moment they tap you.

NIN can chain ista kill when your at 50% they don't even need to get hit sam can only insta kill after getting hit. Im lost
People complain about SAM so much but I literally wipe whole teams with NIN and I never hear anything about that
IF Mch proc 10% on chainsaw it would be worst then both of them trust me AOE death that's why I get the 3 but its pointless
SAM's LB kill potential is debuff 1-2 or 1-5 if they are bad
NIN is 1-5 good or bad as longs you can get the condition in time which is like 10s
SAMs debuff is like 3s and if you add the SAM mit buff time of 5s its only 8s
SAN LB is literally a noob stomp-er
Mean while Drg can party wipe anyone at 30k or less with out their buff with buff might as well spam heal and wish for the best
Mnk Lb comeback dumb fast and can kill one person guaranteed through guard if 24k health and without 34k as long as you us your buff

[threadspool]

NIN can chain ista kill when your at 50% they don't even need to get hit sam can only insta kill after getting hit. Im lost
People complain about SAM so much but I literally wipe whole teams with NIN and I never hear anything about that
IF Mch proc 10% on chainsaw it would be worst then both of them trust me AOE death that's why I get the 3 but its pointless
SAM's LB kill potential is debuff 1-2 or 1-5 if they are bad
NIN is 1-5 good or bad as longs you can get the condition in time which is like 10s
SAMs debuff is like 3s and if you add the SAM mit buff time of 5s its only 8s
SAN LB is literally a noob stomp-er

Would you consider the LB to be better or worse if the instant kill was removed, but the damage of it was increased and the LB generation was faster?