Is Pyromancer getting a perm ban for having Dalamud?

[RayneBoemir]

Don’t know who that is coming from having played WoW my first MMO years and years ago I personally love the FFXIV UI compared to base WoW it was light years ahead and hated having to rely on addons to get basic functionality.

The only thing I would want is a dark theme for the dialogue chat box as the white is way too bright for my eyes. Endwalker has a new chat box for certain npcs and I wish I could use that everywhere.

[KyraAu]

Then that's a line he should be judged on. You won't get an argument from me there. But again, I take his conduct, and his stances, as separate issues. I'd advice as such to anyone here to follow suit.

If he's been forced to change his stance on what he felt was strictly quality of life - which was a lot of what you just listed off. So much the better. You might call it a bad faith argument - that will depend on what goes back on the mod list once this whole fiasco cools down. But I don't subscribe to the 'slippery slope' argument because the first step itself is the violation. If you're a streamer, you're at risk no matter what you pick on a mod list. It's the degree of that risk depends on the degree of the mods. Pyromancer's behavior exacerbates the issue, but it isn't the issue. He's just more likely to get targeted and reported because he's been toxic about it. Let's see what happens once he's had time to think and reflect.

But that standard becomes more gray when a private player who's not broadcasting mods get a better experience. That's where all this gets dirty and muddy for me, and I don't like where we're at between the modded and unmodded experience is now. I think SE needs more focus on improving their moment to moment quality of life when it comes to the UI to ease that discrepancy. Ultimately that's the best approach.

I understand you don't like the concept of "slippery slope" but it's pretty reductive to say that it is that, when the slipping around is being done right now, actively

you said "But that standard becomes more gray when a private player who's not broadcasting mods get a better experience."

I fully agree with that, that's where this whole thing comes into issue here for me.

Regardless of his personal feelings, he is actively advocating no matter what he says his stance is, or what his conduct shows. He is saying "This is okay, fuck you if you say otherwise". Including at the devs lol.

Any streamer right now actively streaming mods and saying "I should be able to do this, it's dumb otherwise" are taking stances. They are not private players, they broadcast the IP of SE in a state that is against the ToS objectively.

That is where the bad faith comes from. He specifically said he has issue with streamers being "Targeted, just because there's video evidence of them".

There does come a point where conduct and stance are inseparable man, not everything can be separated into bite sized issues



/e I'd like to add, before he even logged into FF14 yesterday, he openly said "I have to turn off everything in order to not get banned, I guess that's just how it is". And then about 30 minutes later logged in, showcased all of his mods and what they do, said he doesn't want to play without them, and then proceeded to play and talk shit with mods showing the whole time.

[Seraphor]

No one talking about it seems to have actually been in the stream with all the context, so here


long conversation about mods for 30 minutes takes place

One comment references how it's unfair for console players even they gave "QoL addons" the ok for PC because console couldn't use them

Pyro asks if many people even use consoles, changing the context of his question multiple times to things like "well are there even full statics that are all console players", ignoring literally dozens and dozens of comments commenting how even in JP the majority of the playerbase plays on console (i don't know if this is true personally, but it was being said by a lot of people and he didn't respond to that once, just kept asking)

He then hard turns it into a discussion about how well since PC's can get more frames than consoles, they're already at an advantage. As if that somehow means nothing else should be acted upon that would give a disadvantage to console, because there's "already an FPS advantage"

Then, no matter what was said, he got upset and was raging at people, accusing this as "great community btw, right chat?" and shitting on pretty much everyone. There were obviously and of course several trolls and baiters, but the majority of people were trying to discuss the same shit he was saying. But when he's in that state, it doesn't matter what you say. If he reads your chat and it doesn't rub him the right way right then, you're banned and/or called out for being an idiot etc




And this wasn't even the most ragey part of the stream.

I was there. I turned over to watch someone else more interesting when he got to the part where he raged at someone in chat, saying "why the hell anyone would want to drive a rust bucket when they could drive a Ferrari?!?!? consoles are like 500 bucks dude!", or whatever car models he used in his analogy. Basic PC master race crap.

[Hyrist]

I understand you don't like the concept of "slippery slope" but it's pretty reductive to say that it is that, when the slipping around is being done right now, actively

you said "But that standard becomes more gray when a private player who's not broadcasting mods get a better experience."

I fully agree with that, that's where this whole thing comes into issue here for me.

Regardless of his personal feelings, he is actively advocating no matter what he says his stance is, or what his conduct shows. He is saying "This is okay, fuck you if you say otherwise". Including at the devs lol.

Any streamer right now actively streaming mods and saying "I should be able to do this, it's dumb otherwise" are taking stances. They are not private players, they broadcast the IP of SE in a state that is against the ToS objectively.

That is where the bad faith comes from. He specifically said he has issue with streamers being "Targeted, just because there's video evidence of them".

There does come a point where conduct and stance are inseparable man, not everything can be separated into bite sized issues

I think you're misinterpreting where I'm making that split. Which is odd because you're acknowledging the split here.

I really don't think we're disagreeing - so let's break this down again.

Pyromancer's broadcasting of Mods is a condemned of it, and a condemnation of the stance of the TOS. This makes him no different than someone else who uses similar mods and streams with zero toxicity.
Pyromancer's behavior in his previous deleted stream is an exacerbation of that stance - drawing more attention and ire his way.

Note that we're talking about one streamer over another, even though others are equally guilty of the violation.
So his attitude is a separate issue here. One makes the other worse. Had he calmly stated that he turne off what he thought was too dark of a grey area, and is choosing to take a risk with the remaining and left it at that, this likely wouldn't be an official forum conversation citing him personally as major factor.

[KyraAu]

I think you're misinterpreting where I'm making that split. Which is odd because you're acknowledging the split here.

I really don't think we're disagreeing - so let's break this down again.

Pyromancer's broadcasting of Mods is a condemned of it, and a condemnation of the stance of the TOS. This makes him no different than someone else who uses similar mods and streams with zero toxicity.
Pyromancer's behavior in his previous deleted stream is an exacerbation of that stance - drawing more attention and ire his way.

Note that we're talking about one streamer over another, even though others are equally guilty of the violation.
So his attitude is a separate issue here. One makes the other worse. Had he calmly stated that he turne off what he thought was too dark of a grey area, and is choosing to take a risk with the remaining and left it at that, this likely wouldn't be an official forum conversation citing him personally as major factor.

The reason I'm talking about pyro here is because this thread is literally about him, and he's the only person who's taken an aggressive stance about this since the first bans went out. That's the only reason. So we should just not talk about him until more people are doing the same?

" Had he calmly stated that he turne off what he thought was too dark of a grey area"

No, not really. Streaming any of the addons and saying "This is okay" when the developer said it is not, multiple times in the last few months, and even more times in the last 2 years (yoshi even said "don't use addons, we're not asking" in 2020) is not something that would be overlooked

the issue here IS the fact that he is openly taking a stance that some mods don't fit what SE says is ToS. That is untrue. Factually untrue. It's a bad faith stance for him to take, and anyone defending it as if it's reasonable just because of QoL etc is where that bad faith is enabling more of the same.

As I edited in my last comment,

"before he even logged into FF14 yesterday, he openly said "I have to turn off everything in order to not get banned, I guess that's just how it is". And then about 30 minutes later logged in, showcased all of his mods and what they do, said he doesn't want to play without them, and then proceeded to play and talk shit with mods showing the whole time."










His stream is going live right now titled as "Let's Talk" so I guess he's going to speak for himself here now. Lets see how this goes.

[Aelin_Ashryver]

What he said was that he didn't want people in his chat who aren't even subscribed to treat him like they are paying his bills. Then people started giving him shit about talking down to non-subs. So that just made him even more defensive. But that's not what he was saying. He was trying to say "don't come on my stream and try to tell me what to do like you pay my bills", when those same people aren't even subscribed to his channel.

Pyro literally called his own subs 'the dumbasses who pay his bills'. I was also in the stream live as he was on this rant. He said they (his subs) were mad they can't control him because they pay his bills and just insulted his entire sub base in the process of mocking some randos. He did also have a go at the people who were not subbed as well, more or less implying if ur not subbed you are worthless to him (which he tried to back pedal on). The whole time he was losing his shit at a few trolls and then lashing out at the people who were calmly and rationally disagreeing with him, banned them and insulted them and after ALL THAT he says but guys I am not saying you HAVE to agree with me. Sounds like bull when you go on a ban spree of anyone who says anything that is anything but an agreement with you.

It was the first time I had popped into his stream for ages since I didn't like how nasty he would get to his chat the other times I watched him. Someone would say something he didn't agree with and he would either explode or just get really nasty and insulting. I would be sitting there uncomfortable wondering why the f this dude was losing his mind at people who were really not trying to upset him at all. Feels bad to see perfectly nice people getting treated like dirt because he has anger management issues. People like me who don't like the aggro nature of his streams leave like he told us to and the ones who are left can tolerate it or are specifically there to be amused by his rage. And the more he blows up the worse it will get for him, he is just gonna be their amusement and they will never stop trying to push his buttons and he will continue to take his anger out on the wrong people.

The dude demands respect, demands people understand his PoV and won't actually calm down enough to actually discuss the topic with his chat. Don't bring up the subject if you are incapable of holding a discussion on the matter. Ragequitting the stream like a child ain't a good look. Though given how tilted he was, to be fair it was probably his best course of action to just walk away.

[aveyond-dreams]

His stream is going live right now titled as "Let's Talk" so I guess he's going to speak for himself here now. Lets see how this goes.

Please report back your findings, given the state he was in yesterday I would have thought he would have taken some time to cool down-as in several days, not less than 24 hours. I don't mean any ill will towards him but now is the time for him to step back and try to find some inner peace.

[KyraAu]

Please report back your findings, given the state he was in yesterday I would have thought he would have taken some time to cool down-as in several days, not less than 24 hours. I don't mean any ill will towards him but now is the time for him to step back and try to find some inner peace.

IT's not going well.

He started off accepting his actions as bad, but he said he's copyright striking people because they're misrepresenting him and "made in poor taste" quote

He's abusing the system for copyright because he doesn't like what they're saying. Openly admitted.

It's now him reading ADHD symptoms to explain his actions.


he went into some of the stuff people were doing, threatening to raid discord, found his facebook, reporting him on twitch for hate speech etc. All bad shit done by pathetic people who always have to take things 1000 degrees higher than the situation warrants



I will say though he's still got a pretty bad view on why this came about, this stuff probably isn't helping which is why like aveyond said above, should take more time than this before coming into the light again.

[Aelin_Ashryver]

Well at least his stream is sub only so he shouldn't have so many people poking at him currently.

[Bunnycake]

Don’t know who that is coming from having played WoW my first MMO years and years ago I personally love the FFXIV UI compared to base WoW it was light years ahead and hated having to rely on addons to get basic functionality.

The only thing I would want is a dark theme for the dialogue chat box as the white is way too bright for my eyes. Endwalker has a new chat box for certain npcs and I wish I could use that everywhere.

Ugh, yeeeeah