What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[Lucida3b]

Honestly the biggest issue is that I cant tell whats incompetence vs deliberate misleading at this point. Thats not a good thing

[Kaoru_Nagisa]

Guess the writing team didn't want to bring about the AU in your sig, after all. Hence shoving this info in some obscure place, where it wouldn't spell out quite so clearly in XIV what 'mommy' did.

The fact that even in the Reincarnation story, they subtly try and hint that 'Hydaelyn good Zodiark bad' leaves such a horrible taste in my mouth. Can't even escape it in another universe's retelling.

Especially egregious when this story is supposed to be from Emet-Selch's point of view! Like what the heck!

[Lauront]

Welcome to the club.

[Teraq]

Needless to say the recent happenings on NieR are ... interesting. For the most part it's stuff we already knew, and the state of mankind could be sort of deduced from the Encyclopedia description of the First Era, but it's nice to finally have confirmation that the Sundering was horrifying. Thanks, Mom! Keep glossing over it! Turned out ShB Emet-Selch was, of course, right. He's not the Angel of Truth for nothing after all. Most people playing the game however will continue believing her version of things as presented in EW; after all, hers had the better special effects and the very significant song in the background. She is also Certifiably Good, and right in the end, because Dynamis.

The fact that even in the Reincarnation story, they subtly try and hint that 'Hydaelyn good Zodiark bad' leaves such a horrible taste in my mouth. Can't even escape it in another universe's retelling.

Especially egregious when this story is supposed to be from Emet-Selch's point of view! Like what the heck!

BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD! Ancients were notoriously known for this propensity, after all.


Re: the moon, maybe it's just me being overall pessimistic on the state of things but I sincerely believe it's just someone at SE being sloppy with the skybox and somehow not fixing it in 6.1. For those unaware, you can see the moon from 8 pm to 12 am during Umbral Winds weather looking east and it gradually goes up in the sky until midnight – it's particularly tricky to see during a new moon but it's there:

Yeah. Noticed that one day while I was hanging out there and wondered for a moment how that was possible before I remembered that this was Endwalker where nothing really matters or makes logical sense anyway. Best not to look too deeply.

^

[Lucida3b]

I forget if they ever said she made the moon in particular or if they just said she put zodiark in the moon?

As i could see them try and use wiggle room even if they ignore the previous implications

[Xirean]

I forget if they ever said she made the moon in particular or if they just said she put zodiark in the moon?

As i could see them try and use wiggle room even if they ignore the previous implications

iirc she said she made the moon to hold him.

[Lauront]

Yes, she confirms it in the Word of the Mother scene. It's even clearer in the French version. Now whether it is another tall tale from her or not? Who can say...

[Skyborne]

Ahhh... that NieR crossover. A return to more ShB-style storytelling with actual pathos, even if it's nothing truly new, aside from confirming some things about the Sundering. Aside from a couple of nitpicks, anyway. What's next though, actual vital lore being locked behind some kind of limited edition JP-only breakfast cereal run?

It almost makes one forget the dreck in EW with time loops and memory wipes...

[Kaoru_Nagisa]

On today's episode of "Things I personally found bad or lazy in Endwalker": What the heck happened to Venat's group of followers?

We're told back in Shadowbringers that - just as the Convocation pushed for the creation of Zodiark, so they may rewrite the laws of the Star in order to protect them from the Final Days, and thereafter restore life to the scorched earth - there was supposedly an 'anti-Convocation' of sorts. People who disagreed with their desire to sacrifice new life on the Star for the sake of the lives that freely gave of themselves to Zodiark as fuel for his miracles. This group was headed by Venat, who would go on to become the heart of Hydaelyn, as Elidibus became the heart of Zodiark.

It was the efforts of the group which summoned Hydaelyn into being, so that she might fight against Zodiark and Sunder the world. That is what we learn - not even through Emet-Selch, who could be considered a biased party, but through records left in Anamnesis Anyder by (we can only assume) that very 'anti-Convocation' group.

Why, then, does Endwalker display to us Venat singlehandedly Sundering the world and becoming Hydaelyn? Why were we given information regarding this group of her and her fellows, and then those other people end up as only a brief, passing mention by Venat in Elpis, right before we leave back to our time?

An argument could be made that "they just condensed the events down for the sake of wrapping up the procession of the timeline", but that rings very hollow when it was made such a huge deal back in Shadowbringers. And also just comes across as incredibly lazy, badly-paced writing - to effectively ignore the group efforts towards summoning Hydaelyn, to ignore Hydaelyn doing battle with Zodiark for the fate of the Star and ultimately landing a blow which rends he and the very world asunder.

Visually, yes - that segment of her Sundering the world was stunning and emotional. But, like so much else in Endwalker, when it's viewed afterwards through the lens of everything that has come before it - all of the information we have access to thus far regarding the old world and the Sundering - it becomes all flair with no substance. Retcons for the sake of visual spectacle. Condensing for the sake of empty emotion, and desperately trying to tie it all together with ARR's beloved theme 'Answers'.

We would have benefitted so much more from getting to see more glimpses of those other people, those who opposed Zodiark's creation and the sacrifices that continued to be made in his name. Just as so much else in Elpis (which is where the story genuinely seems to begin falling apart at the seams, I think), such as Meteion and Hermes, this 'anti-Convocation' group suffers from poor pacing and a lack of narrative focus or care given to that portion of the story. The desire to condense down and wrap up a 10 year story arc in one expansion ruined so many plot points and pieces of information left to us in Shadowbringers - ones which seemed to be set up for being further expounded upon later.

We lost so much potential because of Yoshida's desire to speedrun through the capstone to this story, and I'll die mad about it.

[CrownySuccubus]

The general impression is that the writers had the whole "The deaths of the Ancients was an acceptable, natural consequence of the rules of suffering and existence" moral in their heads and everything in Endwalker was shoehorned into that lesson, even if it contradicted past information. I think it was Paw Paw who said it here first, but it seems like the writers were afraid of having some Ancients oppose the third sacrifice because it would demonstrate that there were, indeed, Ancients who weren't "deserving" of being Sundered. It would leave questions of why Venat didn't spare them.

We can't even go with a "The Sundering was indiscriminate and her allies were simply unfortunate" because the devs went on record and said Venat specifically spared Emet-Selch.

The whole thing comes across to me like writing yourself into a corner, and then making a dozen MORE mistakes trying to write yourself out of it.