What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[Lunaxia]

What was wrong with Hyth?

I've always been very fond of Hyth, right from his first appearance in Amaurot (albeit as a shade.) We may not have had a tonne of information about him prior to EW, but from what we did learn I just found him really interesting, and I had hoped Emet, and to a degree other parts of SHB, had paved the way for more thoughtful, complex characterisations than before. He represented the first fleshed out, non-Ascian Ancient in the story and had a significant connection with Emet, while at the same time seemed to serve as a potentially fascinating foil; a whimsical, peaceable yet discerning character that kept his own counsel, yet was hinted as matching him and the Ascians in terms of power and intelligence. I looked forward to his own take of what had transpired during and after the Final Days, and what his dynamic with the other Ancients might add to the story.

I was incredibly disappointed to see him reduced down to what felt like little more than Emet's adoring, self-deprecating sidekick who had almost no purpose or perspective outside of Emet and Azem, and only seemed to be there to emphasise how great and wonderful they are. Suddenly, the Chief of the Bureau of the Architect - you know, the overseer of the institution that rules over all of creation magicks - became the weaker, lesser character happily dwarfed by his friends trope that permeates Japanese media, whose sole redeeming ability was his innate soul sight. Paired with Emet's intense tsundere-ification, there was just a distinct lack of depth that I had been hoping for since the end of SHB. That aside with the WoL in particular trying to hammer home what a good guy Emet was felt so shallow and forced, and followed EW's unfortunate trend of telling, not showing that SHB for the most part seemed to avoid so well.

[Rulakir]

This isn't a contradiction, you're just being dishonest.

The dishonesty here is EN localization if this line is not consistent in other languages. I can't be expected to be multilingual because the EN translators suck at their job.

Having compared some scenes with someone who plays in FR, it seems EN missed out on a lot of context. Nothing narrative breaking, but certainly within the realm of "that seemed important". Are we now coming across dialog that's not even remotely similar between languages? Because that is a problem.

I was incredibly disappointed to see him reduced down to what felt like little more than Emet's adoring, self-deprecating sidekick who had almost no purpose or perspective outside of Emet and Azem, and only seemed to be there to emphasise how great and wonderful they are. Suddenly, the Chief of the Bureau of the Architect - you know, the overseer of the institution that rules over all of creation magicks - became the weaker, lesser character happily dwarfed by his friends trope that permeates Japanese media, whose sole redeeming ability was his innate soul sight. Paired with Emet's intense tsundere-ification, there was just a distinct lack of depth that I had been hoping for since the end of SHB. That aside with the WoL in particular trying to hammer home what a good guy Emet was felt so shallow and forced, and followed EW's unfortunate trend of telling, not showing that SHB for the most part seemed to avoid so well.

I can't disagree with that assessment, although, I still adored Hythlodaeus (and have since ShB). I love the 'trio' and how all 3 are presented as having deeply cared for one another to the extent that they had planned to return to the star together. I thought that was beautiful.

I would say hopefully Hythlodaeus gets a chance to shine later, but Yoshi-P seems to want to wash his hands of everything Ancient. I have seen several fan made comics where he is depicted as working closely with the Convocation and otherwise a 'big deal' in his position as Chief of the Bureau of the Architect.

[ElizanderNorisse]

The story seemed good to me except for the destruction of the Garlean city. But eh, there are indications that we’re rebuilding it so.

[KageTokage]

I'm curious as to how that line was translated in other languages because I'd like to think such a blatant contradiction wouldn't have slipped through the cracks multiple times.

[KageTokage]

Y'shtola would have to have known that Zodiark was the one who stopped the Final Days after all the research she had done in Anamnesis Aynder, moreso then any of the other Scions.

I think mistranslation is the only logical explanation in this case.

[KariTheFox]

Y'shtola would have to have known that Zodiark was the one who stopped the Final Days after all the research she had done in Anamnesis Aynder, moreso then any of the other Scions.

I think mistranslation is the only logical explanation in this case.

I just listened to the cutscene in Japanese, my Japanese isn't perfect but she seems to be saying that Hydaelyn was around to bind Zodiark when the Final Days were happening so she would know what to do.

(Or maybe she knows something because the Final Days remained forestalled even though she bound Zodiark, like I said. Not perfect.)

Edit: the point is that she doesn't seem to be crediting Hydaelyn with anything except binding Zodiark in the Japanese. It's a weird line in English that doesn't reflect her prior knowledge or later conclusions. So using it as represe ntative of her stance - next to the later one especially, strikes me as cherry-picking.

[KizuyaKatogami]

That quote is from At World's End, which is before the visit to Elpis. Y'shtola had an innacruate understanding of the situation, and then after you visited Elpis she had a different understanding based on what you told her.

This isn't a contradiction, you're just being dishonest.

She literally spent time at anamnesis though, yknow, the place with all of their knowledge etc? No ones being dishonest, you’re just being oblivious to the obvious bias painted towards hydaelyn.

[KizuyaKatogami]

I just listened to the cutscene in Japanese, my Japanese isn't perfect but she seems to be saying that Hydaelyn was around to bind Zodiark when the Final Days were happening so she would know what to do.

(Or maybe she knows something because the Final Days remained forestalled even though she bound Zodiark, like I said. Not perfect.)

Edit: the point is that she doesn't seem to be crediting Hydaelyn with anything except binding Zodiark in the Japanese. It's a weird line in English that doesn't reflect her prior knowledge or later conclusions. So using it as represe ntative of her stance - next to the later one especially, strikes me as cherry-picking.

We shouldn’t have to cross reference with other languages though. Localization needs to do their damn job. Either way though, you can’t expect and shouldn’t expect everyone to know 2-3 languages or be cross referencing them. In the end it’s source material.

[KariTheFox]

We shouldn’t have to cross reference with other languages though. Localization needs to do their damn job. Either way though, you can’t expect and shouldn’t expect everyone to know 2-3 languages or be cross referencing them. In the end it’s source material.

That's something I'll actually agree with you on, I have a lot of problems with the English localization. It's not really an Endwalker specific issue, though.

Localization is hard work, though. So I can see how a minor incidental line like that could have gotten overlooked. And it can't really be easily changed now, since it's a voiced cutscene and all.

[jameseoakes]

We shouldn’t have to cross reference with other languages though. Localization needs to do their damn job. Either way though, you can’t expect and shouldn’t expect everyone to know 2-3 languages or be cross referencing them. In the end it’s source material.

I have wondered if a lot of the issues with the story have been issues at the localisation stage and a lack of communication between the English localisation team the the writers. I think the story would still be weak but might have addressed some of the tone/theme issues that look to be driving a lot of the complaints with the story