What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[Theodric]

If nothing else, the promotion of the burger eating scene simply convinces me that this game has left what I liked about it behind. I like depth and nuance. Slice of life elements are fine for a change of pace every now and then - particularly after something heavy has happened - but there isn't anything of consequence occurring. The only meaningful losses are amongst the Garleans and the Ancients. Who, in turn, are treated as an inconvenience for daring to fight back and not just roll over and die.

As it stands, it just seems like the game is being tweaked to trend as often as possible on Twitter. If something is controversial or unpopular on Twitter, then, it'll just be dropped and cast aside. Which, I suppose, explains why we never did get any real fan service for those of us who liked Garlemald.

(...and no, Gaius seeing his homeland fall apart at the hands of caricatures and forced to have multiple of his adopted children die one by one only to end up attending seasonal events in a rooster outfit is not 'fan service' to me.)

[Rulakir]

What struck me the most was how they saw their people as their brethren, their equals, whereas Venat sees and speaks of her people as separate from her, as if they're beneath her, and deems herself and herself alone better than all of them and somehow worthy of deciding what is "best" for them.

I realized after the fact that Venat viewing the sundered as "children" is less likely a term of endearment than how she actually viewed them. Contrast this to Emet who grew as a character from seeing them as "broken husks" to "children" as Y'shtola notes in Ultima Thule, yet Venat consistently only views them one way. Just an interesting observation.

I don't think there has ever been a more maddening moment in this game than seeing Venat refer to the Ancients as her "love"... you know, the people who she then goes on to ultimately massacre and eradicate every aspect of, from their lives, their culture, their history, to the very fact they ever existed, and elected herself "goddess" and "mother" over their broken and twisted remnants. In the context of any other story, she'd been seen as a terrible villain.

Venat's 'love' is incredibly narrow upon examination. EW drives home that her main concern is and always was the people of the Source to the extent that the lopporits ask why they'd even bother with the other shards, which I found shocking and yet nobody bats an eye at this. Ryne doesn't even have anything to say about it other than she's sure they'll find a way to defy their fate after surviving the events of ShB.

Add in the context of the NieR crossover and it becomes even more sick. Saying she knew the souls she tore apart and left in such a state they could barely function would eventually become something vaguely resembling mankind after a few millennia and some rejoinings really doesn't make it any better.

There's also something hideously ironic about an Ancient who refused to return to the star and lived, by her words, a long, happy, adventure-filled life devoid of pain and suffering and full of neverending wonder telling the shards of the people she destroyed about why living a short life filled with unavoidable torment is a good thing, and that being immortal and immune to pain is bad and will supposedly lead us to being so happy we'll be bored and kill ourselves, which for some reason the writers constantly try to impress upon us is somehow much worse than poverty, disease, loss, war, etc. etc. You know, those little things Hydaelyn lovingly bestowed upon the human race she adores so much, that don't matter because we have... friendship, apparently.

Endwalker: Rules for Thee, But Not for Me. The expansion.

No one points out how ridiculously privileged the Scions are - and I don't even mean that in the "modern" sense of the word.

I found the Scions somehow being the poster children of how to handle suffering and despair laughable. The only two among them who've experienced either to a substantial degree are the Crystal Exarch and Estinien.

"Tone deaf" is certainly the impression I had throughout the entire expansion, most notably the sundering cutscene where they decided to glorify telling people in the midst of trauma and grief that they needed to move on and deal with it. While, as someone else mentioned, Venat used up her summoners body and soul to make herself a winged goddess. :P

[aveyond-dreams]

If nothing else, the promotion of the burger eating scene simply convinces me that this game has left what I liked about it behind. I like depth and nuance. Slice of life elements are fine for a change of pace every now and then - particularly after something heavy has happened - but there isn't anything of consequence occurring. The only meaningful losses are amongst the Garleans and the Ancients. Who, in turn, are treated as an inconvenience for daring to fight back and not just roll over and die.

As it stands, it just seems like the game is being tweaked to trend as often as possible on Twitter. If something is controversial or unpopular on Twitter, then, it'll just be dropped and cast aside. Which, I suppose, explains why we never did get any real fan service for those of us who liked Garlemald.

(...and no, Gaius seeing his homeland fall apart at the hands of caricatures and forced to have multiple of his adopted children die one by one only to end up attending seasonal events in a rooster outfit is not 'fan service' to me.)

A friendly reminder that Gaius's current voice actor was Roose Bolton in Game of Thrones, the people with the flayed man as their house sigil. It is incredible that the character he was voicing was doing that of all things after so much had happened to him and his children. However, this is only one of many offences from the current writing.

I wonder what comes next. Will they have Lena Headey/Cersei voice a waitress in the Sharlayan cafe?

[Lauront]

Based on recent changes I fear they know it a little too well...

True, but if I were to take off the clownposting hat briefly, I'd say it fits with the caricature of "perfection" they embody in the Plenty, with a small, pretty garden area, contrasted with the barren world below, and all forms of strife eliminated but no thought given to how they'd fill their time when they reach it (which is unreal to me) - all challenge removed, whether in the plot (character strife) or gameplay, but no thought on how this remains enjoyable to anyone. Ra-la for me will be another MMO ready to ferry me away.

[Rulakir]

He wouldn't be forgiven for what he did to the shards and their inhabitants with the rejoinings (I don't have any energy for a debate on this) hence his death, but he at least gets somewhat of a happy ending.

I only accept Elidibus' fate if, unlike Hydaelyn, his soul persists and he does get to be reunited with his loved ones in the aetherial sea.

Venat/Hydaelyn I legitimately hope we never see or hear from again even if there are more time travel shenanigans. She may have been likeable at the beginning of Elpis, but everything after that made me lose all respect for her. I'd say I feel the same way about Hermes, but he was never likeable to me.

[Theodric]

It's the weird attempts to declare what is and is not a valid reaction to suffering that gets me. It's the sort of concept that I would prefer the development team allow players to draw their own conclusions about instead of trying to brute force a very strange and childish solution to the concept of despair. There's nothing particularly special about the Scions. Even as they claim, during the finale, that they have 'been here before' that simply isn't true. They've never endured even a fraction of what the likes of Emet, Varis and Jullus have put up with. Although it isn't a competition, things become even more unpleasant with the arrival of dynamis. Beating an opponent because of 'stronger emotions' and 'feels' is simply bizarre.

It doesn't make sense, either, since the Scions typically have the emotional depth of a sack of bricks most of the time. All as a consequence of the writers refusing to let them actually suffer and react to situations in a flawed, human way. HW and ShB were both embracing a sort of realistic gravity where both sides of the conflict had a point but only one could endure and emerge victorious. Which, I suspect, is why they are so highly regarded.

[OhNooo]

91 pages? Bravo. I didn't think people could drag something out this long but leave it to public forums to manage it.

Just resurrecting this post 410 pages later to say:

GOTTEM BOIS

[Theodric]

A friendly reminder that Gaius's current voice actor was Roose Bolton in Game of Thrones, the people with the flayed man as their house sigil. It is incredible that the character he was voicing was doing that of all things after so much had happened to him and his children. However, this is only one of many offences from the current writing.

I wonder what comes next. Will they have Lena Headey/Cersei voice a waitress in the Sharlayan cafe?

What's even more interesting is that many questions throughout the years during Q&A sessions were devoted to Garlemald. Players were always interested in the place, and the development team were well aware of that. So it's rather bizarre that it was thrown away in such a manner. I don't know why they insisted on hiding all the nuance away in side quests in favour of pushing silly caricatures over in the MSQ's.

The game has a problem with depicting grown adults and seasoned soldiers making logical calls and reacting in a human manner when things go south. FFXIV would benefit immensely from a character such as Jack Garland who is brash, hot headed and willing to call out nonsense no matter who says it.

Though because such a character might dare to look as someone's comfort character the wrong way we're stuck with barely any of that sort of thing at all.

Jullus and Fordola were the exception rather than the rule. Unfortunately if they get further focus I'm sure they'll go the same way as Estinien and be watered down until nothing exists beyond another pretty face.

[AziraSyuren]

If anything this thread will likely eventually be shut down under the premise of "decreasing forum load times" like several other megathreads were in the past. Whether or not the writing team will actually be receptive and act on the feedback is another question entirely.

I mean, they probably will. The dev team is no stranger to doing damage control, even for story things. Given how much of this game's story is written in advance, we'll probably get a sudden slew of hamfisted anti-Venat narrative beats in 6.4 or 6.5 or something. It won't be satisfying, especially given she's too dead to be held to account for anything, but it is something I'm expecting them to do.

[Skyborne]

I mean, they probably will. The dev team is no stranger to doing damage control, even for story things. Given how much of this game's story is written in advance, we'll probably get a sudden slew of hamfisted anti-Venat narrative beats in 6.4 or 6.5 or something. It won't be satisfying, especially given she's too dead to be held to account for anything, but it is something I'm expecting them to do.

I'd feel the same way, depending on how they did it. If they did it, anyway, and didn't just force things even more.

The only way I'd really accept that is if it was conveyed via a Sundered ascian showing up and going along the lines of "Congratulations good little Warrior of Light, was it worth it to do as you were told? Are you happy?" [Elidibus flashback] Without the whole gang of Scions there to try to sass or do the cliche fist-clench, of course, just 1 on 1. Self-doubt? Self-reflection? In MY Endwalker?




Even Yuna from the funny booba fanservice sequel is more torn up than our WoL, who is just so forcibly happy-go-lucky after these universe-shattering events. But MOVE ON and FORGE AHEAD and all that, I suppose.