6.2 Dragoon potential changes/assessment of current (6.11)

[Aco505]

On the other hand, the DRG got a busy burst, that's a fact. I didn't say anything about that being bad either, for now at least.

Oh yeah, DRG is bursty during even windows, that's true. I wasn't saying that you were against it, since you pointed out that you liked it anyway. Perhaps it came out that way, but I was just trying to provide counterarguments to this idea that busy jobs need to be adjusted for some reason. It depends on the job and it depends on other factors, because if we're gonna adjust a specific job due to it being busy, then we'd have to adjust them all, but that's boring. There's other jobs that are less busy or with a different gameplay. That's the beauty of the game, it has a bit for everyone!

[TabrisOmbrelame]

Oh yeah, DRG is bursty during even windows, that's true. I wasn't saying that you were against it, since you pointed out that you liked it anyway. Perhaps it came out that way, but I was just trying to provide counterarguments to this idea that busy jobs need to be adjusted for some reason. It depends on the job and it depends on other factors, because if we're gonna adjust a specific job due to it being busy, then we'd have to adjust them all, but that's boring. There's other jobs that are less busy or with a different gameplay. That's the beauty of the game, it has a bit for everyone!

Now your talking ! I understand better this answer.

Like you said, adujstement depends on factors. A jobs can be adjusted for being too busy, or the complete opposite, being too boring. Adjustement can come in various way just like all the problem they have. When adjusting a class, one must not forget about the other or this will cause some balance problem.

Like I said, in my last message, the DRG is a busy class, and it's gameplay reach near perfection for some player. It's a busy class that is satisfying to play. Nobody which the class to be reworked right now. What I mean to say is a rework can happen for various reason, and even if a class is really good, the dev may reach a wall in the progression of the class, forcing them to make huge change. I wasn't exactly into the idea that busy job absolutely need to be adjusted but more likely that adjustement could happen due to the limit they'll eventually reach in the near future.

I think we can all agree on the fact that DRG shouldn't be the class to focus on right now. I still believe Samourai need a huge amount of work to be redone properly, and that is the most important thing to do right now.

[Cybylt]

I agree with you, but their is some point i need to clarify too.

Having a class who got aesthetic + potency upgrade is a well known mechanics every expansion for healers, for exemple. In fact, it's not as bad as it could be. What's more interesting is too add something more behind that. As we can see, DRG got that double dragon head after making two Raiden thrust, added at EW. The mecanics behind that, while being extremely simple to do, is still interesting. As for now, the DRG as little to manage ressource-wise, but still got Buff, and many oGCD to use. I fear that adding more could make the job too busy. I can only suggest that some skill will switch for new one, allowing the DRG to become a whole new class without touching to the core of what it actually is. At least, I hope so.

Healers get that sort of update treatment, people are upset with the design with healers. These are both true but they're not exactly related issues there. People's problem with healers is that there is nothing going on with their damage kits they're happy with the design of Dragoon and it currently walks a solid balance of complexity, rhythm, and output.

Going without changing a design people don't like isn't the same as keeping one that they do.

[JakkuPM]

People say when you get to 90 you should switch to another class but I can't really see myself doing that at all. DRG is just so much fun.

idk who's saying that but don't listen to them. play what's fun for you. to me, DRG is the most fun melee dps at the moment (SAM was my favorite before the 6.1 changes). i really hope whatever changes they had for DRG in 6.2 don't happen; it feels great to play.

[darkdyllon]

the thing that is concerning is that instead of pooling all these changes for 7.0 (you know ... an EXPANSION) they're already working on these and removing aspects of a job people love, because their future goal is to remove crit (or mitigate it's importance)
it's fine if they want to get away from Crit (an problem THEY created mind you) but give us something in return.
like with Samurai and Kaiten, they remove Kaiten and that's it ... nothing new to replace it, instead they could remove Kaiten in 7.0 and add something new to the rotation.(or rework it, since the animation is the best, twirling your blade straight into the sheath and then let out an massive hit, it was truly an add-on to Iaitsu)

now we're seeing that here with DRG and AST being next on the chopping block.

remember how lackluster DRK and SCH felt when they got announced for Endwalker, and when the media tour changes were laughable at best? they could fix this by simple pooling it for 7.0 and BOOM all these changes and backend changes.
but nope, let's do these half assed reworks just to make the devs life slightly easier, while ruining the core feeling of a job for the player.

i truly hope that Yoshi is speaking the truth when he always says "we're reading the official forums, so keep feedback coming there" because concidering how quiet he is on the Samurai backlash (and it's really an big pushback, haven't seen much like it yet)
i doubt he and his team are reading the forums (also FF14 ISN'T an japanese only game, it's kinda stupid that the devs can't even read/write english, when are we gonna get an dedicated community manager who actively posts on these forums to make up for it?)

[CasterSvarog]

Man, I wish it was just gonna be simple stuff like making Doom spike available at an earlier level or making dragonsight into something you don't need a Macro for to get good results. But after the changes Samurai got i am honestly worried for Dragoons future.
I honestly half expect dumb stuff like Dragonfire dive being an Aoe version of Jump, Auto crits on most skills because you could just Life surge them, spineshatter being turned into a not thunderclap clone. I really don't wanna see that because I love the job quite a lot. It's got such a well build rotation and it's just plain fun to look at with all of its jumps even if you can't double weave in alot of cases because of that. It's something different from other jobs who instead have a faster ogcd by default. Don't take that away.

[Chopstix]

I agree with most of what you say. DRG is right now at its best state and it's quite concerning that they want to change it. What exactly brought them to think about DRG and not any other job in particular?

It needs small tweaks and QoL adjustments, but certainly not huge reworks in the middle of the expansion.

That said, the latest Mirage Dive change is dubious: while it got rid of the accidental double-weaving, the grace period added is too long, making double weaving it as tight as before the animation lock reduction. At this point they should just revert the change, since they couldn't anticipate that slapping a normal 1s recast time would bring it very close to the original 1.1s of jumps.

This tightness also causes issues in certain encounters like Dragonsong's Reprise, where you want to get an eye at specific points before a boss leaves, but that this change has made a bit hard to get unless HJ is used extremely early.

Stardiver should not get higher potency than it has now because then we start getting close to the territory of "my Stardiver didn't crit so my DPS fluctuates a lot" that plagues so many other jobs. It is Dragonfire Dive that needs a potency boost, or any kind of added effect/role to make it stand out, since it's a bit lacking for a 120s recast ability.
At this point, Dragon Sight should just be merged with LC, making the former a personal 60s 15-20% buff that is an upgrade to the latter and adjusting the potencies/damage of the rest of the kit depending on the choice made. Other people have advocated for the Dance Partner treatment, with Litany activating the eyes due to their shared 120s recast time.

To be honest, with the loss of the tether, the ability lost its main flavor so I'd just rather go with the first option. It frees one oGCD slot in our burst, and Litany would do too much if it gave the eyes to the DRG and the partner in addition to its normal effect.

There's been extensive discussion on the matter of DRG being busy and button bloat in this thread, should anyone be interested: https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...d-button-bloat.

Several of ur points r exactly what i was thinking. The mirage dive lockout is pretty annoying, too tough to double weave now, and i can understand the DSR reference completely. Lot of the windows r just over 30 secs long and squeezing in that mirage dive is likely very challenging.

What needs to happen for dragon sight is queueable macro functionality.

On the whole the rotation is nicely fleshed out (maybe a clean 30 sec cycle would be nice in the next expansion), so only minor tweaks r needed. Dragonfire dive needs a boost, for a 2 min CD it feels extremely lackluster. Just slap some single target dmg on it with x% falloff on aoe hits.

There is the bit of anti synergy with the auto crit and crit buffs, but i think yoshi p has some major overhaul in store for crit things down the road.

DRG is even more a blast to play than in SHB. It is my new go to melee after the SAM butchery. If they ruin this job too by completely unnecessary changes im gonna be pissed.

PS: oh it would prolly be a good idea to make the first aoe available MUCH earlier for some lvling QoL.

[CarnageTheory]

I don't know who told you that, but as of the latest patch and the new ultimate, DRG's sitting at the head of the table, according to logs. If you like it and want to raid, there's no reason to switch to another class!