Some classes have become too overpowered

[Ransu]

Its not even a job balance thing, its a design thing. There's too much CC. Silence and poly should just straight up not exist, purify needs to be 10 seconds of immunity and not 5, the one shot LBs should not exist, whm LB charges way too fast.....the list goes on and on. The mode is just a dumpster fire. I've played indie pvp games with better thought out designs and balance than this garbage.

[gioroggia]

Its not even a job balance thing, its a design thing. There's too much CC. Silence and poly should just straight up not exist, purify needs to be 10 seconds of immunity and not 5, the one shot LBs should not exist, whm LB charges way too fast.....the list goes on and on. The mode is just a dumpster fire. I've played indie pvp games with better thought out designs and balance than this garbage.

Yep. Design flaws everywhere. It was only exciting at the very beginning when I didn't yet have a solid idea of what each job can do. Once you understand how it plays out, then you see it for the mess that it is. The only thing CC has going for it is the quick pace of the matches.

I am not optimistic about their ability to improve anything at this point. The pvp mode is incredibly simple for an MMO - it's 5x5, no gear involved, no different builds, only 6 or 7 buttons to smash, it's completely detached from PvE concerns... And it still came out incredibly unbalanced and with some very glaring design issues.

Other games do a better job while accounting for gear disparity, different builds, different game modes, and using the same skills used in PvE.

[Nanne]

Other games do a better job while accounting for gear disparity, different builds, different game modes, and using the same skills used in PvE.

And we have had all that and the PvP still never took off and this is like the 4th attempt at trying something different that maybe works

[gioroggia]

And we have had all that and the PvP still never took off and this is like the 4th attempt at trying something different that maybe works

Indeed. But now that PvP is just a mini game completely unrelated to the PvE side of the game they have A LOT of freedom to tweak things around because they don't need to think about gear, PvE balance, etc etc. And still there are some very questionable design choices as well as lack of balance across the board which they are slow to address. They have it easier than the PvP teams of most other MMOs and still could not do a good job. Maybe it will get better in the future, but I'm not holding my breath.

[Sidamel]

And we have had all that and the PvP still never took off and this is like the 4th attempt at trying something different that maybe works

They should give up on arena pvp. The current client can't support such a mode in a proper way.

[Ransu]

They should give up on arena pvp. The current client can't support such a mode in a proper way.

Yoshi-P is a huge pvper which is why he's insistent on making it work and I'm certainly grateful for that as I love pvp myself. It is a shame this engine and the garbage servers get in the way of a lot of good ideas.

[LowIQ]

Yoshi-P is a huge pvper

A "huge pvper" wouldn't ruin 2 pvp modes out of 3 just for the sake of some payload arena and a gameplay revolving around oneshots and chain-cc.

[Gserpent]

Yep. Design flaws everywhere. It was only exciting at the very beginning when I didn't yet have a solid idea of what each job can do. Once you understand how it plays out, then you see it for the mess that it is. The only thing CC has going for it is the quick pace of the matches.

I am not optimistic about their ability to improve anything at this point. The pvp mode is incredibly simple for an MMO - it's 5x5, no gear involved, no different builds, only 6 or 7 buttons to smash, it's completely detached from PvE concerns... And it still came out incredibly unbalanced and with some very glaring design issues.

Other games do a better job while accounting for gear disparity, different builds, different game modes, and using the same skills used in PvE.

CC is pretty well designed. There are some outlying balance concerns, but on the whole it's pretty well tuned right now. RDM, AST, and arguably RPR are a little too strong right now. GNB needs substantial changes to be more playable because it's mostly just a worse MNK in its current iteration. Otherwise, classes are pretty well balanced.

Crowd control isn't a problem. People whining about CC quite frankly are not very good at the game and haven't learned how to position themselves properly. If you're positioned well, you aren't likely to get popped by a CC chain - and if it does happen, they had to overextend to such an extent to accomplish it that your team will win the rest of the fight anyway.

Unfortunately, just like any PvP game, the people making the most noise are simultaneously the people that know the least about the game they're talking about - because they're here whining about things instead of actually learning to play it. As long as SE doesn't make dumb balance changes based off of meta and whining, it'll be fine - but they already buffed AST and SCH (who were both completely fine) and nerfed WHM even though none of them needed any changes at all, probably because WHM is greatly over-represented at low skill tiers because of how strong it is against dumb people that don't pay attention to things.

The biggest issues with CC aren't related to class design and balance. Overtime is not very well thought-out and needs some substantial alterations, and I'd argue there's a bit too much of a difference between the maps. Some classes fare much worse than others on some maps (volcano in particular), to the point that you probably shouldn't play those classes on those maps if you're assuming you'll be against competent opponents.

[gioroggia]

CC is pretty well designed. There are some outlying balance concerns, but on the whole it's pretty well tuned right now. RDM, AST, and arguably RPR are a little too strong right now. GNB needs substantial changes to be more playable because it's mostly just a worse MNK in its current iteration. Otherwise, classes are pretty well balanced.

Crowd control isn't a problem. People whining about CC quite frankly are not very good at the game and haven't learned how to position themselves properly. If you're positioned well, you aren't likely to get popped by a CC chain - and if it does happen, they had to overextend to such an extent to accomplish it that your team will win the rest of the fight anyway.

Unfortunately, just like any PvP game, the people making the most noise are simultaneously the people that know the least about the game they're talking about - because they're here whining about things instead of actually learning to play it. As long as SE doesn't make dumb balance changes based off of meta and whining, it'll be fine - but they already buffed AST and SCH (who were both completely fine) and nerfed WHM even though none of them needed any changes at all, probably because WHM is greatly over-represented at low skill tiers because of how strong it is against dumb people that don't pay attention to things.

The biggest issues with CC aren't related to class design and balance. Overtime is not very well thought-out and needs some substantial alterations, and I'd argue there's a bit too much of a difference between the maps. Some classes fare much worse than others on some maps (volcano in particular), to the point that you probably shouldn't play those classes on those maps if you're assuming you'll be against competent opponents.

I agree with your last point on the job differences on each map.

But what you said before that is just meaningless. In any game with a bad design you can complain about the design, use it to your advantage, or both. This doesn't mean the game is well made. Yeah, it is true that people often complain about jobs or skills without truly knowing how they work or considering every side of the issue. It is also true that this game's pvp mode plays and feels like a live beta. And dude, no, it is not "well-tuned" at all.

[Gserpent]

I agree with your last point on the job differences on each map.

But what you said before that is just meaningless. In any game with a bad design you can complain about the design, use it to your advantage, or both. This doesn't mean the game is well made. Yeah, it is true that people often complain about jobs or skills without truly knowing how they work or considering every side of the issue. It is also true that this game's pvp mode plays and feels like a live beta. And dude, no, it is not "well-tuned" at all.

Yes, it is well-tuned. There are very few meaningful balance issues. RDM and AST are the only classes that really stand out as being problematic, and maybe GNB in the opposite direction. Otherwise every class is viable and useful and effective.

You need to produce some actual, concrete discussion points if you want to be taken seriously. You can't go "oh it has so many problems!" without actually elaborating on any of them. It just makes you look like a doomer.