Be nice to nooob tanks ffs

[Kniteroad]

It's the tank decision to decide whether or not he's willing to make Wall to Wall. You can't force people to do what they don't want to do.

It's in the ToS :

It is prohibited to force personal views or disregard the opinions of others. If a report has been filed and the prohibited activity is confirmed, a penalty will be issued.

It is prohibited to make statements such as:

"There's no way we can clear this with [suggestion]."
"Big pulls are normal here, so do it!"
"I don't care what you think, just follow my instructions."
"I'm not asking for your opinion."

Being lvl 60/70/80/90 doesn't matter at all. It's not because you master your class or not that you are willing to do so. Please respect the playstyle of other people instead of forcing you own.

I don't think they were advocating for insulting or harrasing a player for not adopting the playstyle of you're choice. But there is nothing wrong with there being a certain level of expectation at higher levels that the said player would have a better understanding of game and class mechanics. I don't consider a player a "noob" anymore at lvl 70+ and boosting your first job is doing yourself a severe disservice imo. The frustration with single pack pulls is that dungeons are already incredibly easy and borderline boring (especially for healers). And while i would also never harass a tank in this manner, it doesn't make it less frustrating.

Maybe people also need to be a little more open to offers of help or tips and not get so defensive every time someone gives a critique or note

[TabrisOmbrelame]

I don't think they were advocating for insulting or harrasing a player for not adopting the playstyle of you're choice. But there is nothing wrong with there being a certain level of expectation at higher levels that the said player would have a better understanding of game and class mechanics. I don't consider a player a "noob" anymore at lvl 70+ and boosting your first job is doing yourself a severe disservice imo. The frustration with single pack pulls is that dungeons are already incredibly easy and borderline boring (especially for healers). And while i would also never harass a tank in this manner, it doesn't make it less frustrating.

Maybe people also need to be a little more open to offers of help or tips and not get so defensive every time someone gives a critique or note

The reason I said that was because he said "You are supposed to know what to do at lvl 60/70/80/90" which is clearly not doable for some people, especially those who boost.
Some people boost to lvl 80, yeah, I agree, that's a huge disservice for them, and then what ? They will learn at the exact same pace, or maybe slower because they have more button to learn right of the bat. But still, they have to LEARN. They will not do that in 2 seconds. It will takes weeks or month for some of them.

The main problem i'm refering too is to force new player to make Wall to wall on a class they aren't familiar with. It's like taking a new born baby and forcing it to run even before he has what it takes to walk. For exemple : Don't ask a Tank to W2W if he has no stuff at all. I've done dungeon with tank who had less HP than the healer, they take shitload of damage with just 3 monster, so asking for W2W in this scenario is just suicidal.

Even if for you dungeon are boring, that's doesn't mean it's not difficult for other. People tend to forget the difference in ability with other. If everyone had the same High-end ability right of the start of the game, everyone would have the title Legend or Necromancer, which wouldn't make any sense at all.

And for your last point, that is sadly true. Some newbie don't want help at all, and for most of them that's bad for them in general.

[Illmaeran]

But there is nothing wrong with there being a certain level of expectation at higher levels that the said player would have a better understanding of game and class mechanics.

I disagree with this; let's use my alt an example. She's a level 90 warrior who capped out right before finishing the standard Shadowbringers 5.0 content; not 5.X, 5.0, and hasn't gone any farther since. It's 100% entirely possible for someone to be way over leveled for their place in the story and have very little experience tanking dungeons at that progression level. I've tanked Crystal Tower, ARR and Heavensward dungeons, and Alexander a ton; but very little past that so I don't really have a good sense of a WAR's full kit as I've never run anything past 5.0 content and Copied Factory. The moment I lose Sprout is the moment people start making assumptions and get their knickers in a twist if I don't play her like I've got many years of experience .

As a second example, my main. Back in ARR I decided to level PLD to 50 for giggles then didn't play it until mid-6.0. Picking it up again was stressful, to say the least. Here I was, someone with two 90s playing a level 50 PLD with full Poetics gear running roulettes that most lvl 90s expect people who aren't new to it to have run it a bajillion times. Yes, I'd run them a bajillion times on my level 90 DPS classes, but never as a tank, and yes, I caught some shit from people for not living up to expectations. I had literally not played the class in 7 years and had never tanked a lot of the content I was now running. Unfortunately, not having the sprout icon and no "New Player here's your Poetics Bonus" pop up at the beginning causes people to make certain assumptions that aren't always accurate.

We all have to keep in mind that this community is full of people of all levels of experience and the whole range of learning ability. For some, the kinesthetic nature of the game is how they learn best, but for others it's not so it takes them a lot longer to get things down. If someone's not pulling all of the packs at once, keep your thoughts to yourself, and let the tank do their thing.

[LeonKeyh]

-snip- The moment I lose Sprout is the moment people start making assumptions and get their knickers in a twist if I don't play her like I've got many years of experience .

-snip-

We all have to keep in mind that this community is full of people of all levels of experience and the whole range of learning ability. For some, the kinesthetic nature of the game is how they learn best, but for others it's not so it takes them a lot longer to get things down. If someone's not pulling all of the packs at once, keep your thoughts to yourself, and let the tank do their thing.

That's because once you lost your sprout you've been playing the game for 450 hours AND at least completed the previous expansion. If it were a single player game, you would have beaten it 12+ times with a playtime like that. Your example of this alt that "only" ran 5.0 content doesn't really track on why you couldn't run higher level dungeon content. Most jobs get 1-2 new abilities that don't change the base way that you play the job.

Yes, the game is filled with various experience levels and learning ability. But tanks play the same way regardless of the number of packs pulled, so it's not really a valid reason to not pull everything. Healers are really the only role that plays differently whenever you do W2W pulls and that's just that they need to heal a little bit more. If someone is not pulling all the packs, pull for them, they can just sit there and keep hitting their 1-3 AE buttons.

[Silverbane]

... whatever ...

What is that saying people have? Oh right:

"You don't pay my subscription, so you don't get to control how I play."

[Lilyth]

What is that saying people have? Oh right:

"You don't pay my subscription, so you don't get to control how I play."

No, but people can choose to boot you out if you think that unironically. :P

[Silverbane]

No, but people can choose to boot you out if you think that unironically. :P

I would think kicking a tank because you don't like their conservative playstyle would be abuse, and reportable to the GMs. (You'd best hope it is, anyway, since my spouse and I often queue together. <insert evil laugh here>)

But what would you save, anyway? A minute or two? You might wind up spending that much time waiting to replenish.

[ Lost a tank to DC once in Doma castle after first boss ... managed to clear the dungeon while we waited for them to return, but it was a bit slow. I had to heal more and DPS less than usual. ]

I note, BTW, that some of the new and revamped dungeons make it impossible to W2W pull, by requiring all of a group of trash mobs to be taken down before a gate opens. I don't mind that.

[LeonKeyh]

I would think kicking a tank because you don't like their conservative playstyle would be abuse, and reportable to the GMs. (You'd best hope it is, anyway, since my spouse and I often queue together. <insert evil laugh here>)

But what would you save, anyway? A minute or two? You might wind up spending that much time waiting to replenish.

[ Lost a tank to DC once in Doma castle after first boss ... managed to clear the dungeon while we waited for them to return, but it was a bit slow. I had to heal more and DPS less than usual. ]

I note, BTW, that some of the new and revamped dungeons make it impossible to W2W pull, by requiring all of a group of trash mobs to be taken down before a gate opens. I don't mind that.

Nope, but not doing your job as a tank is kickable. If you don't pick up the enemies that the healer/DPS pulled then you're the one breaking ToS. If you and your spouse kick someone from the group for doing something that isn't against ToS then....you'd be the one breaking ToS. A successful vote kick in a full group of randoms is typically never going to be punished, but yeah, if you're pulling your spouse in, that's different.

All of the new dungeons are designed specifically to easily tell what a W2W pull is. Those "gates" are....walls...

Yes, even though I will have played for at least 450 hours and am level 90, from an actual progression standpoint I'll be at whatever level the given dungeon is and won't have used my full kit until I hit the level 90 dungeons and/or FATEs. Anything before that will be brand new for me, which my level and gear don't represent. On my second time through the first EW dungeon with no New Player notification, level 90, and full level 90 gear; would you think I'd run it many times before or would you know I hadn't? All evidence will point to "A Max Level Player Who Should Be Able To Do This In Their Sleep" rather than the actual situation.

Because I stopped at 5.0, she hasn't unlocked anything past that except for Copied Factory. Being 90, I've got my full kit minus what we get from role quests, but being synched in roulettes means I don't have access to that full kit.

What I'm saying is that your kit hasn't changed between level 80 and....level 81....you're acting like there are huge jumps in kits from level to level, but that's not the case. The "biggest" change with WAR is at level 82 where an ability gets replaced by a better version of that ability. At 86 you get a single new AoE OGCD which isn't something anyone would care about if you didn't use it. At level 90 you get another AE attack which...again... nobody is going to care about you using.

It's not like you're playing a completely different job.

[Illmaeran]

That's because once you lost your sprout you've been playing the game for 450 hours AND at least completed the previous expansion. If it were a single player game, you would have beaten it 12+ times with a playtime like that. Your example of this alt that "only" ran 5.0 content doesn't really track on why you couldn't run higher level dungeon content.

Yes, even though I will have played for at least 450 hours and am level 90, from an actual progression standpoint I'll be at whatever level the given dungeon is and won't have used my full kit until I hit the level 90 dungeons and/or FATEs. Anything before that will be brand new for me, which my level and gear don't represent. On my second time through the first EW dungeon with no New Player notification, level 90, and full level 90 gear; would you think I'd run it many times before or would you know I hadn't? All evidence will point to "A Max Level Player Who Should Be Able To Do This In Their Sleep" rather than the actual situation.

Because I stopped at 5.0, she hasn't unlocked anything past that except for Copied Factory. Being 90, I've got my full kit minus what we get from role quests, but being synched in roulettes means I don't have access to that full kit.