A Toxic Culture in XIV

[Iscah]

You keep comparing it to separate games, when it is not. It's all 1 game. It's expansions of exactly the same game.

So, a better comparison would be games that add DLC to the end of their games to continue the story.

By that logic, then, everything past 2.0 is DLC. The level 50 side stories like Binding Coil are part of the story DLC for ARR. The level 60 stuff came as DLC for Heavensward, following ARR but preceding Stormblood. It all came out in the order that the writers intended it to be played.

And I still think they are better regarded as separate games. FFXIV is the series; ARR, Heavensward, Stormblood, etc are the games. Each one has a narrative beginning, climax, credits, post-credits, side stories happening at that point in the narrative. New expansion comes out and the cycle starts over.

Each one is a complete game in practice, despite how it's handled.

[LalaLlama]

Snip

Yes, by that logic 2.1-2.X are DLC's as well. There are different sizes to DLC's, from small to large enough to BE separate games. That doesn't mean they ARE separate games, they are just large enough to BE separate games time-wise.

Expansions have never been considered separate games. In my 15+ years of playing MMO's, I've never ONCE heard someone tell me that they are separate games. But, since you keep throwing this at me, then, why can I not start from Endwalker? Why do I HAVE to start in ARR and play through the expansions? I mean, they're all separate games, right? I can go and play Witcher 3 without touching 1 and 2. Heck, I could have started playing Final Fantasy 14 without touching 1-13. If they are separate games, as you say, then, why should we not be allowed to start at whichever expansion we want too?

Because it would ruin the story, right? So, the story itself isn't separate, meaning that it's no longer a separate game. When you are REQUIRED to play the first part to get to the second part, it's no longer considered a separate game and more considered a DLC of the first game, ESPECIALLY when it's under the same title.

Witcher 3 has multiple DLC's that are the size of separate games and continue the story, but, they are considered to be DLC's. It's exactly the same as FFXIV, except they are called expansions and not DLC's. Because they EXPAND on the previous section.

[Iscah]

why can I not start from Endwalker? [...] Because it would ruin the story, right? So, the story itself isn't separate, meaning that it's no longer a separate game. When you are REQUIRED to play the first part for the second part to make any sense, it's no longer considered a separate game and more considered a DLC of the first game, ESPECIALLY when it's under the same title.

By that logic, any continuation of any medium is a continuation of the first part and not a sequel.

You're always going to get more out of Part 2 of anything if you watch/play/read Part 1 first, but Part 2 is still a sequel.

You do have a point that structurally you can't choose to start from Part 2 here, so yes, in terms of playing the linear MSQ it's all one continuous game – but still, narratively and structurally it is broken up into multiple games, each of which was "the" endgame in its time, designed in the expectation that players have reached the end of the narrative at that point and will branch out into the side stories before the next chapter of MSQ is released.

Today the MSQ has long piled up past those stopping points so you can bypass them if you want to go faster, but the game experience still makes the most sense if you stop and do them anyway.

[LalaLlama]

Snip

Not really, because, again, it's not about the story or the sequence or anything like that. The main problem is the pacing. The length of time it takes that is required.

I'll give you a good example. Harry Potter. I could sit and watch it from the first one till the last one, but, I can also watch it from Deathly Hallows part 2 and watch it backwards. I can watch it in whatever sequence I want to, I have options. This doesn't devalue the story, at all. What it does is give people the option to view it how they want to view it, even if it just makes more sense to watch it from the first part.

I don't mind starting in ARR and going through every expansion to experience the story, same as a lot of people who dislike the MSQ. The BIGGEST thing people don't enjoy about the MSQ is the length of time that it takes to get through it. And this will only get worse the more expansions that come out, unless they do something about it. That brick wall that is the MSQ will only grow larger, and less people will get over it.

But, if it was sped up, that wall would become a lot smaller, meaning more people would get over it. I'm not asking that the story be changed, I LOVE the story (For the better part anyways). I'm not asking for ANYTHING other than it be sped up. I know it can be considered asking a lot still, but, it's also asking a lot from new players to play the MSQ which is, on it's own 150-200 hours. If we take into account everything else as well, those hours would go into the 1000's. But, at the same time, if the story was no longer 150-200 hours and was shorter (Say between 50-100), those players that would have quit would keep playing, become more invested into the game and eventually spend 1000's of hours doing all of the side-quests and stuff.

Speeding the MSQ up is nothing but a win, as it would 100% bring a lot more people into this game. Every new-ish person that I've spoken to that has quit FFXIV has been over the MSQ. Nearly every one of them have even said they LOVED the story, but, the pacing and constant fillers just ruined it for them.

[Kaurhz]

Snip.

I don't really think they should look into speeding up the MSQ, not unless they intend on doing a rework on ARR... That being said I think the correct -- Or better course of action for that matter -- Would be to develop more meaningful open-world content, something that can bring players together regardless of their level, or progress in the MSQ, open-world dungeons of sorts that scale to the level of the zone/area would be fantastic, especially if they can give apt rewards for it. That way players can always get involved in something. Regardless of the pacing of the story, whether it be slow or fast, is still plagued with the fundamental issues in that there's a lack of support or encouragement for substantial/significant grouping up and socializing, which is an integral part of an MMO, especially one to leave a good starting impression. Heck even expanding some of the newer systems like Gemstones into the older zones would do well in breathing some life into the game.

TL;DR: I don't think speeding up the MSQ resolves the fundamental issues that people actually have and they should invest in something that breathes life into older content and zones, as opposed to them being a barren husk. Speeding up the MSQ would be a constant and ongoing endeavour that eventually seeps to the degree that it detracts from some of the more important world-building quests to accommodate people getting to relevant levels as quickly as possible. They would do themselves justice if they can develop something that makes lower-level zones more relevant even to higher-level players all the same. The shameful part is, that many of these systems which can be utilized to make this effective already exist within the game.

Don't get me wrong, it absolutely would bring more players to the game, or at the very least prolong their interest, but the method of speeding MSQ is akin to a band-aid on a fairly deep issue.

[LalaLlama]

Snip

I do agree, they couldn't just speed it up without changing a LOT in the game, and it would be just a band-aid fix. I would love it if say, event's or something happened, like how FATES work which brings more MMO to the levelling experience. Right now, for me to get into the MMO side of things, I have to actively walk away from the MSQ (Unless I'm doing a duty/trial) to get the experience of an MMO. I've also had it where a few times a few people would show up to do FATES together, but, these have been few and far between. If they found a way to implement proper MMO into the levelling experience, including "allowing" the MSQ to be run as a multiplayer experience, it would do a lot.

I don't think it's the MSQ itself that is bothering me really, it's more the fact that it FEELS like I'm playing a single player game for a vast majority of the time. If this were worked on to implement more multiplayer into it, I don't think the time itself would actually be too much of a problem, as it would allow you to build friendships whilst you level, and in turn making it so it doesn't feel like it's all "solo".

[OhNooo]

it's more the fact that it FEELS like I'm playing a single player game for a vast majority of the time. If this were worked on to implement more multiplayer into it, I don't think the time itself would actually be too much of a problem, as it would allow you to build friendships whilst you level, and in turn making it so it doesn't feel like it's all "solo".

Unfortunately, the devs are planning to make it even more "solo friendly" for people who play the other FF games but have held off on XIV because they don't like mmorpgs. So yeah =/

[Deveryn]

Unfortunately, the devs are planning to make it even more "solo friendly" for people who play the other FF games but have held off on XIV because they don't like mmorpgs. So yeah =/

It's not like it's taking away from the rest of the experience and it might even get some people interested in checking out the rest of the game. They'll even know how mechanics work.

[Raoabolic]

I don't really think they should look into speeding up the MSQ, not unless they intend on doing a rework on ARR...

But the fact that they give the player the option to pay to skip the MSQ tells me that they believe the MSQ is non important enough to offer the pay to finish option. You can keep going "But they are for your alts!" until your face turns blue but the fact they can be bought by a newly made account tells me otherwise. Oh well, I enjoyed WoW until Cata and i'll enjoy this game until they get their cata expansion.

[Atelier-Bagur]

But the fact that they give the player the option to pay to skip the MSQ tells me that they believe the MSQ is non important enough to offer the pay to finish option. You can keep going "But they are for your alts!" until your face turns blue but the fact they can be bought by a newly made account tells me otherwise. Oh well, I enjoyed WoW until Cata and i'll enjoy this game until they get their cata expansion.

For the record the mogstation items dont accurately reflect the desires of the main FFXIV dev team. They're run by separate group of people. Why do you think it took them this long to implement the cash shop in-game?

And even then the story skip only goes as far as to the previous expansion. You still have to do endwalker msq.