Worst housing system in the world

[Packetdancer]

We're at a place now where I literally have saved posts off to now put them into the many various housing-and-or-lottery threads. So, here we go with a very quick breakdown of things, based on the Lodestone posts:

1. People enter the lottery for the plot, more or less "putting money into the placard" as their bid.
2. Lottery closes.
3. Lottery server rolls for each plot, and picks a winner for each plot out of the list. These are all valid, real results.
4. Lottery server attempts to tell the housing servers who the winners for each plot are. Due to some factor -- potentially the massive amount of data suddenly being horked out of the lottery server all at once -- some chunks of the data don't get through. It's the equivalent of you not getting a letter, because the postman accidentally left it in the bag or it got stuck to someone else's mail or whatever. The mail exists, the content of the mail is known (by the sender, anyway), but it just never arrived.
5. Placards that never received their mail go "Welp, I got no data." Because the winning number is an integer, and in many systems, integers treat "I have no value" and "My value is 0" the same way, the placards metaphorically shrug and show 0. However, there is still a winner for that plot; since the mail never arrived, only the lottery server knows who that is, not the placard.
6. Here begins the current problem: some people, disappointed that they seem to have lost, withdraw their gil from the placards.
7. SQEX goes "this is a problem" and freezes the lottery so that they can re-issue the results -- in essence, sending another copy of the mail that got lost.
8. SQEX realizes that some people who withdrew gil from the placards were, in fact, the winners of those plots. (Or even the only entrant.) However, the system is written with the assumption that "The winner has gil in the placard. When the winner claims the plot, their specific gil amount is eaten and they get the plot." The system thus has no way to award the plot without the gil in the placard... nor does it have any way to take the gil from someone without it being in the placard in the first place. (And they -- quite rightly -- don't want to just invalidate the results on those plots and invalidate someone's win simply because that person took the gil out due to a problem that SQEX introduced.)
9. SQEX now has to figure out how to get the winner's gil back into the placard without also turning the lottery on. Of course, you can write code to solve this! But... that's writing new code. And moreover, it's writing new code that one imagines that SQEX wants to test really super thoroughly this time, to ensure there's no weird edge cases that, like, slurp all your gil down into a vortex or whatever.
10. [ "You Are Here" label on this timeline. ]
11. At some point, SQEX solves the above problem. They re-issue all the results and the people who won (but the placard didn't tell them) and still want the house get to pay the gil -- even the people who refunded their bid, not knowing they'd won -- and everything is good.
12. Presumably the next lottery goes more smoothly, because that code has probably now been gone over line by line by multiple people at this point.

Was the lottery kind of a disaster as a result of this? Yes. Is SQEX doing the right thing by making certain that they have a way to still award plots to the winners who already took out the gil, because they didn't know they were winners? Also yes, in my opinion. Is it a smart thing to take extra time to make sure whatever fix they come up with works properly in every scenario before pushing it like? Dear god, yes.

Can you imagine the absolute rioting that would ensue if they made a fix for this and it made things worse? It would be the forum's own version of Endwalker's "Final Days". For everyone's sake, I really, really am fervently in favor of them taking the time to do this fix right.

[Packetdancer]

We're at a place now where I literally have saved posts off to now put them into the many various housing-and-or-lottery threads. So, here we go with some notes about this mess of a housing system.

I can't imagine SQEX is sticking with the current system because anyone there thinks the current housing system is a good implementation. No one thinks it's a good system. Inanimate objects have heard enough about how busted the housing system is that they have opinions, and unanimously think it's broken. No one is debating this. It's demonstrably wonky, has been exploited to Mars and back previously (in ways that have led us to the lottery system), and causes more bitterness and resentment than most systems are worth.

If SQEX actually thought it was a good implementation, we'd see Lodestone posts explaining why the housing system is actually a good idea. Instead, what we see is an endless series of apologies and attempts at band-aid fixes to make this trash fire of a system burn maybe a little bit less, even if it's still burning. They know it's bad.

So why don't we have instanced housing?

I think they stick with this system not because it's good, but because the alternative -- instanced housing -- isn't feasible with the architecture of the game's server system. And before anyone says it, moving an MMO's server ecosystem into "the cloud" is not a thing that can be done easily; given the amount of data that flows between different discrete systems, you really need to design to be in a scalable cloud ecosystem from the beginning. If you don't, communications channels can break down, and stuff happens like -- to use a random example -- a housing lottery system trying to send results to various housing ward servers, and the data not getting there. It was bad with housing. Imagine if that sort of stuff happened with your inventory when you world-traveled.

(This isn't a flaw with cloud architectures, per se -- though they do also have flaws, where MMOs are concerned -- but it is an issue with taking complex older non-cloud ecosystems and trying to just shove them into the cloud wholesale. It's not like trying to transplant a truck engine into a two-door Toyota, it's more like trying to transplant an aardvark into a two-door Toyota; the results may be interesting, but probably not what anyone intended. You get a veritable zoo of new and interesting bugs, race conditions, and edge cases to track down.)

This game client has nothing in common with FFXIV 1.0, as we've been told before... but from my understanding, some of the server architecture still does. Maybe not in the code itself at this point, but in terms of architectural decisions made back then. And as a result, it -- like many other MMOs of earlier eras -- does not deal well with scalability. It has a set, finite number of resources, and if you run up against the limits of those resources, stuff stops working. We've seen it in a number of ways before; the so-called "Raubahn (Extreme)" situation at Stormblood's launch, login servers becoming overloaded, entire instanced zones not letting you teleport in when folks are doing a special FATE that comes up, etc. Heck, even the housing system itself; when a housing ward server is maxed out and cannot instanciate another house, you get an error message and literally cannot go into the house.

With open-world housing, the equation as to what the needed resources are is an easy equation. X housing districts, each with Y wards, each ward having Z houses. The maximum number of houses that could be used at once is thus X*Y*Z. (It's obviously a little more complicated, since there's apartments and FC private rooms and so on.) Assume that, say, only 60% of the houses will be in use at one time, and you have a number that you can use to figure out what resources you need. (Though if you guessed wrong on a number -- like that 60% -- you get the "Player can't enter the house." scenario we had at Endwalker launch.)

With instanced housing, however, the equation might as well not exist; the amount of houses you might need is anywhere from "none" (everyone decides since we now have instanced housing, they don't care anymore) to "every single active player" (yikes). Moreover, if you have instanced housing, people would (rightly) expect the house to remain there if they unsubscribed and then resubbed later. So now, for every player that ever set foot into an instanced house they picked up, you have to keep that house around for all time (or until the account is deleted), thus causing an ever-growing number of houses that have to be stored -- and which can potentially be in use.

That scenario -- combined with what we do know (or can reasonably guess by observation) about FFXIV's server architecture -- is not a recipe for instanced housing to be viable, not without a massive reworking of the game's entire back-end and server architecture. (Which, after this many years of operation, is probably a Very Large codebase, and not something easily just... torn down and rewritten.)

Because if it were viable, I think SQEX would absolutely have implemented it by now. I guarantee you that they're tired of hearing about housing woes, much less trying to fix housing woes. The fact that they keep trying to make this system work is fairly telling... at least from the viewpoint of someone who worked on the other side of the player/developer divide in the past.

[SilverSp]

Literally no one thinks current system is good. It has been an issue for a long time and we shouldnt have to wait another 7 years for a change.

[SilverSp]

Legacy players, basic and full sub players. And this is barring exchange rates in different parts of the world.

Practically. As in , the actual process, practice, and reality of the situation, yes. People are paying different rates.

If by practically you mean something that doesn't mean practical, then you using a world poorly is not my failing. If you wanna chew on the right or wrong of that feel free, but facts are facts. The fact is not everyone who plays the game pays the same amount to do so and even without optional services this is still true.

It isn't even a hill to die on, you're just wrong.



The absolute truth is that we all PAY for access to the game in one way or another.. but that does not guarantee access to all content equally. The fact that we pay different prices is mostly moot, because OP is just complaining that they don't like how they don't have access to housing when someone else does. I can understand the frustration and hope that someday soon we have some sort of solution beyond apartments for those who want to participate in everything housing offers.

They then however go on to try and hint that we SHOULD be able to buy into housing if we have more resources which would be unfair.

All in all the sentiment I share is on the first page: The OP has a point but is presenting it in tantrum form.

people are using conversion rate as an excuse to not realize we are all paying to get access to the game . LOL

[SilverSp]

its amazing that people can still defend a multi billion dollar company when they failed to provide after 7 years to satisfy atleast 20-30% of playerbase and not 1 single problem besides the clicking bot has been solved this still denies 98% of the playerbase from housing.. theres no reason they cant invest a portion of their revenue into upgrades which allow for more housing. Lets keep pretending housing problem doesnt exist and they still wont admit that this housing bug isnt as small as they first announced its major but they wont admit.

[Big_Bap]

Ive been dealing with a game data recovery ticket for weeks now maybe a month with no replies nothing and have been calling customer support with my ticket number they keep telling me "we cant give you an estimated time we have no way of messaging them or telling them to do yours unfortunately" every customer service calls ends with no help i have been calling everyday for almost a month now with no help no nothing and in the meantime my paid Subscribed days will Not be refunded even though they are causing the delay . Im missing 20 million Gil and i know exactly which time it needs to be rolled back using game data recovery and have filled out the form with all details and information and yet still no replies only reply i get is "we will email you once its done" im losing my paid subscribed days and still no progress or updates on whats going on. In the meantime i have been with a police crime report and the police was able to finish a thorough investigation in my real life and gave me a full on report in less than 3 days while square enix takes longer than a pentagon FBI investigation... what are they even doing ? ive dealt with i would say 39 different gaming platforms customer support over the span of 13 years and have never ever experienced such a bad customer service and this is probably the only game that i pay for monthly all the other ones are major AAA big title games and with even bigger company and higher net revenue they have 40 times more players and still serve customers and players in a orderly and quick manner ..

newsflash : pandemic isnt only affecting square enix its affecting the entire planet as of right now so what that means :
1) every single company whether its gaming or other type of company are all affected by covid
2) every single other company in the world with more players in their games across all platforms have 150 to 380 times faster and quicker customer service with better resolution
3) other companies with 700 + Million players who play their game for free even have better service
4) square enix doesnt get a free pass cuz its covid because other companies affected by covid have better performance then them even in this situation
5) even a police investigation takes shorter time then their process
6) when you make people pay full price for a game and charge people a full premium monthly payment to play the game even after paying a FULL PRICE for the game and extra for EACH DLC you set your bar high so your customers expect better customer service . Certainly better service than any free to play game yet its opposite and free to play games customer service is apparently a few hundred times better.
7) the customer service phone line puts you on hold for 3+ hours and only keeps saying that "we cant see the status unfortunately you have to just wait" for weeks and months while im losing my paid subscription days
8) i had 39 different MAJOR gaming companies customer service and over few hundred other entertainment companies customer service experience and nothing was as bad this .

out of few Hundred companies Square Enix's customer service has to be the Worst in the world

FFXIV is one of the most enjoyable games to "Play" i do agree with that however now the subscription for this game is one of the priciest out there for any MMO rpg . now to justify that payment monthly ? yes i agree They have one of the best production crew for music / animation / story etc. however that doesnt justify it to be 40% more expensive . When you charge customers more your customers or clients expect more . IF i am going to pay 40% more than any MMO in the world then I "SHOULD" EXPECT that type of content out of the game Yet the game has lots of lackings and some boring grinding to do for things like relics which i know are optional but it is part of the game that isnt the most enjoyable to do .
Now the 2nd comment is the customer service : Square enix's customer service i would say is ranked the worst customer service in any entertainment companies history within last 43 years . For example . issues with your account ? cool its a premium paid subscription based game / service so i am guessing their customer service "Should" be better than a free to play MMO RPG games right ? ur account is locked ? no access ? contact customer service for SQUARE ENIX and after 3 hours of hold the cutsomer service person will tell you " sorry we dont have any direct contact with the other team that helps you restore your account we cant do anything you just have to wait for email we cant even escalate your call to anyone we cant do anything" after 2 weeks of no action and you still dont have your account restored guess what still no updates on your support ticket and even then after 19 calls to square enix's customer service phone they still keep saying "we dont have any connection or any way to reach the other team you have to keep waiting it takes 1 month to 2 years for it to be done based on volume and "IF YOU DONT HAVE YOUR SUBSCRIPTION PAID" this whole time while ur ticket is up we wont resolve your support ticket or fix your issue" thats literally what they said to me after 19 phone calls and 2 months of waiting . i had to pay my subscription for a game i cant play and they wont resolve my issue and has no way to even get an update . and No you will NOT get your days reiumbursed for the days you lost of paid subscription !
lets get to the last point it is maintanence : after every update the company finds a way to not once not twice not thrice but quadriple times (4 times) mess up something every patch. so we have to always lose a whole half a day of playtime 4 times in a row after EVERY UPDATE . they never in history landed a clean patch without a BUG or a glitch . every time theres a patch i know ill lose approximately 24-36 hours of them shutting down and not getting my moneys worth of playtime because theyll mess something up and shut it down to fix it another 8 times in a row then the next patch drops and you know youre about to lose another 36 hours of 6 hours each to fix the first patch they dropped .
justify most expensive sub fee ?

[SilverSp]

reminder this kid posted in another thread with a chart showing how theres a price difference between a 1 month sub and 3 month sub apparently that has something to do with who gets access to housing and who doesnt then does a currency conversion on different currencies telling us how that affects who gets housing and who doesnt too LMAO. Ignore bs he types basically making up stuff about housing system then posts irrelevant posts

[SilverSp]

[IMG][/IMG]
According to him if someone pays different sub payment it has something to do with whoever gets access to housing. Basically making up stuff