6.11 PVE Changes are utterly tone deaf

[Vinclum]

It's so stupid, you have to CAST your finishers and even when they CRT/DH they dont even come close to a normal crit from a lot of the other classes instant skills.
SAM is a pure dmg class and the busiest by far, with the buffs other classes got in 6.1 SAM doesnt look as good.

[xAFROx]

It's so stupid, you have to CAST your finishers and even when they CRT/DH they dont even come close to a normal crit from a lot of the other classes instant skills.
SAM is a pure dmg class and the busiest by far, with the buffs other classes got in 6.1 SAM doesnt look as good.

Indeed. It really makes me wonder why they didn't wait to implement a change like this when whatever they have planned was ready to be brought forth fully. I've been reluctant to do pve content because my best geared job at 90 is currently SAM and it just isn't fun and feels mediocre.

[Quor]

Indeed. It really makes me wonder why they didn't wait to implement a change like this when whatever they have planned was ready to be brought forth fully. I've been reluctant to do pve content because my best geared job at 90 is currently SAM and it just isn't fun and feels mediocre.

I think that's the question that's been on a lot of people's minds.

[maju420]

i dont like the mirage dive change for dragoons they should have left it like it was before

[deadman1204]

Sry i'm not agreed with what you mean. For a controller player is the removel from the Skill Hissatsu Kaiten very good and I dont want it back.

This is the problem (Not the poster themselves) - playing with controllers. Many people ignore the fact that play on a small controller must be as easy as on a big keyboard and mouse. EVERY game that tries to be PC and controller always has this problem - PC play becomes crap to support better controller usage.

[Shiroe]

Smn still hasn't gotten love :/

[YukiB]

This is the problem (Not the poster themselves) - playing with controllers. Many people ignore the fact that play on a small controller must be as easy as on a big keyboard and mouse. EVERY game that tries to be PC and controller always has this problem - PC play becomes crap to support better controller usage.

The first 5 pages of the thread are full of posts from controller players explaining how Kaiten (and button bloat) is not an issue for controllers.

Unfortunately it seems you didn't make it past the 2nd post.

[xAFROx]

This is the problem (Not the poster themselves) - playing with controllers. Many people ignore the fact that play on a small controller must be as easy as on a big keyboard and mouse. EVERY game that tries to be PC and controller always has this problem - PC play becomes crap to support better controller usage.

But literally every controller player here has said there is no problem.

[elioaiko]

Sry i'm not agreed with what you mean. For a controller player is the removel from the Skill Hissatsu Kaiten very good and I dont want it back.

I'm a bit confused, SAM still feels good to play. I'm on PC and use a controller. The removal of Kaiten only added more Shintens so the amount of APM hasn't really decreased.

[FrogBiscuit]

I'm a bit confused, SAM still feels good to play. I'm on PC and use a controller. The removal of Kaiten only added more Shintens so the amount of APM hasn't really decreased.

While certainly a valid perspective to have, many people don't like the change/simplification in rotation, animation, and just decision making while playing the class.

Shinten is not at all a 1 for 1 exchange with kaiten.
1. Most clearly felt was the move from what many of us considered the theme of the class. Building up to big finishers, and then making them big with Kaiten. Not only has that build up been robbed from the class (potency changes also playing a part) but the conscious act of powering up your move before hand is no longer there. I fully understand there may be some SAM players that didn't even take notice of this and don't care... But understand many that play the class did and that specific play style that we enjoy of elegant glass cannon was removed from the game. (the changes to Tenka Goken also were a negative in that very same venue. They entirely removed the satisfaction of knowing your class and executing your moves well for, 'stand in middle and mash buttons').

2. Kaiten was the single component making kenki management even a thing. Personally, I rather a selection of kenki based moves I have to make strategic decisions about... rather then 'mash shinten when button lights up'. We don't even technically need the kenki gauge anymore. Its pointless in this current patch.

3. As mentioned above, its not a 1 for 1 tradeoff, either in game play feel or even visually. The kaiten animation was satisfying, fluid, chained right into our finishers, and not only gave a nice visual leading into the culmination of our buildup, but then it was most often rewarded after with a massive number. The clunky look and feel of shinten not only fails at providing any assistance to build up, but it visually looks out of place and is a more obscure move to most other SAM moves. (Not suggesting a sword class having a lunge is strange, but simply that the animation doesn't fit with the rest of the move set and this is no satisfaction behind mashing the button simply when ever its available).