What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[Rulakir]

Creating an AU doesn't undo the reality of the WoL's world. The Final Days happened, the sundering happened, every misfortune that befell the unsundered trio happened, none of the tragedy is lost. It would've just been a nice thing to know that in one reality we managed to spare them that fate even if we never see it. Instead, thanks to the time loop, they went and made the WoL an accomplice to the sundering, for which I will never forgive them.

[Xirean]

I admit to having protagonist perspective bias here, but to me the main and important difference between the ancients and the 8UC is that one is a tragedy you would be trying to undo, and the other is a tragic future you are working to prevent. Do other stories handle time travel better? Sure. But I can forgive FFXIV because the time travel is just a vehicle for getting various pieces into place to tell the actual relevant story.

I have to disagree. From the WoL's perspective this is accurate and barely so. G'raha traveled back in time to undo something that happened in his lifetime. For us we are preventing but for him he is reversing. However, for all we know, that timeline he came from still exists. He is still here with us, which means either he is immune to time alterations or time alterations don't matter. I'm not going to excuse bad writing to say that time travel is a vehicle. There are implications that are made with the events that EW presents. Those implications matter and currently the writing on the wall is that nothing matters so long as it looks cool and the good guys are all ok in the end. That's not good. That's not satisfying. That's actually rather insulting.

[Theodric]

At the end of the day MMO's by their very nature are designed to appeal to a broad range of different people and personal tastes. By only ever allowing the same select few characters to be front and centre and walk away with a happy ending then the game will continue to disappoint many players - and as such there will always be those who speak up regarding the matter.

[Valfreyja]

So, for all the replies, there are plenty of reasons WHY Venat didn't tell the other Ancients.

Simply put, there was no point.

One of the worlds in the Dead Ends (pretty sure the final one) was where the Ancients were headed. That was established by SE.
The Ancients had no concept of hardship or despair. They were aetheric beings in which dynamis was very low to begin with.
Dynamis was essentially their kryptonite.

Venat was forewarned, and already saw the best thing the Ancients could come up with. Zodiark.
Blanket the world in Aether. Drown it in an aetheric shield, so dynamis is too weak to be of consequence.
Nothing more than a band-aid, but it was all they were capable of doing against it.

The world had to be sundered, to teach the various peoples hardship. Suffering. But also the joy and hope of things as well.

That is why we listen to Meteion's narrative during the Dead Ends, and see how things wrecked all those worlds.

The final world is the one for the Ancients, I believe.

"A star without strife, where none remembered life's trials or it's joys"
"What it's people had gained from ease, they lost to apathy"

That is what Elpis was like. There was no hardship. The Ancients were an idle people. They studied and created, sure.
But there was nothing like suffering at all. They could create anything they needed. They didn't really have to work for it.

This shows us why Venat chose to keep silent. In us she saw the future. The WoL shows her the drive and passion of humanity.
Because ultimately EW's story is a reflection of us. The will to go on, to never give up or surrender to despair. To hope for a better tomorrow.

That's been the story all along, to be honest. It's been humanity facing off against the Ascians. Standing up against despair, hopelessness, and all those other negative things. With the WoL acting as the bright shining beacon that brings hope to the world.

[redheadturk]

So, for all the replies, there are plenty of reasons WHY Venat didn't tell the other Ancients.

Simply put, there was no point.

One of the worlds in the Dead Ends (pretty sure the final one) was where the Ancients were headed. That was established by SE.
The Ancients had no concept of hardship or despair. They were aetheric beings in which dynamis was very low to begin with.
Dynamis was essentially their kryptonite.

Venat was forewarned, and already saw the best thing the Ancients could come up with. Zodiark.
Blanket the world in Aether. Drown it in an aetheric shield, so dynamis is too weak to be of consequence.
Nothing more than a band-aid, but it was all they were capable of doing against it.

The world had to be sundered, to teach the various peoples hardship. Suffering. But also the joy and hope of things as well.

That is why we listen to Meteion's narrative during the Dead Ends, and see how things wrecked all those worlds.

The final world is the one for the Ancients, I believe.

"A star without strife, where none remembered life's trials or it's joys"
"What it's people had gained from ease, they lost to apathy"

That is what Elpis was like. There was no hardship. The Ancients were an idle people. They studied and created, sure.
But there was nothing like suffering at all. They could create anything they needed. They didn't really have to work for it.

This shows us why Venat chose to keep silent. In us she saw the future. The WoL shows her the drive and passion of humanity.
Because ultimately EW's story is a reflection of us. The will to go on, to never give up or surrender to despair. To hope for a better tomorrow.

That's been the story all along, to be honest. It's been humanity facing off against the Ascians. Standing up against despair, hopelessness, and all those other negative things. With the WoL acting as the bright shining beacon that brings hope to the world.

Sorry, I will take the society of ease over one of despair any freaking day and I would strive as WoL to make ours like theirs. All the way to using the power of my seat to draw the shards of our buds back so they exist again fully rejoined.

[CrownySuccubus]

The Ancients are only one of two cases of sympathetic characters not getting a happy ending and the tragedy of it being completely ignored/handwaved. They're the only group that the story gives the Scions and/or the WOL the option of a happy ending but just saying "Nope. You don't get to do that".

The only other one I can think of is Hingashi, where we're told how monstrously corrupt the shogunate is, but for whom the story takes an uncharacteristic "Overthrowing them would be bad" standpoint, and makes us fight against the rebels instead of with them.

[HollowedDoll]

So, for all the replies, there are plenty of reasons WHY Venat didn't tell the other Ancients.

Simply put, there was no point.

One of the worlds in the Dead Ends (pretty sure the final one) was where the Ancients were headed. That was established by SE.
The Ancients had no concept of hardship or despair. They were aetheric beings in which dynamis was very low to begin with.
Dynamis was essentially their kryptonite.

Venat was forewarned, and already saw the best thing the Ancients could come up with. Zodiark.
Blanket the world in Aether. Drown it in an aetheric shield, so dynamis is too weak to be of consequence.
Nothing more than a band-aid, but it was all they were capable of doing against it.

The world had to be sundered, to teach the various peoples hardship. Suffering. But also the joy and hope of things as well.

That is why we listen to Meteion's narrative during the Dead Ends, and see how things wrecked all those worlds.

The final world is the one for the Ancients, I believe.

"A star without strife, where none remembered life's trials or it's joys"
"What it's people had gained from ease, they lost to apathy"

That is what Elpis was like. There was no hardship. The Ancients were an idle people. They studied and created, sure.
But there was nothing like suffering at all. They could create anything they needed. They didn't really have to work for it.

This shows us why Venat chose to keep silent. In us she saw the future. The WoL shows her the drive and passion of humanity.
Because ultimately EW's story is a reflection of us. The will to go on, to never give up or surrender to despair. To hope for a better tomorrow.

That's been the story all along, to be honest. It's been humanity facing off against the Ascians. Standing up against despair, hopelessness, and all those other negative things. With the WoL acting as the bright shining beacon that brings hope to the world.

Aside from that being entirely headcanon, it's just patently false, no concepts of hardship? I guess pandemonium does not exist. People getting mauled by creations, surely that was celebrated too, but okay I'll level with you.. I can just as easily headcanon that the sundered world will go the way of the 2nd world and wipe each other out fighting. I'm gonna genocide an entire planet because I really like this one dude/dudette, so inspiring! You need to be taught suffering, said Venat.. "Off with your knees, thou shall walk no more." Crystal mommy simps I swear.

[KizuyaKatogami]

snip

Where are you getting they didn’t suffer and had no hardships? Please go and do the side quests in Elpis and Pandaemonium. We see that they had human emotions. They grieved, they suffered, and they dealt with tragedies. It’s ironic you bring up how Venat saw to never give up, yet that’s literally what she did. She gave up on her own people. The sundered do surrender to despair by the way, quite a lot of them just look at the skies during Thavnair. The whole final days started because of a failed business transaction lmao.

The plenty is what Venat thought would happen to the ancients, not what might actually occur. Either way…the sundered strive to perfect their world as well, look at all of the quotes Alphinaud says. Just one example:

Alphinaud once said in Shadowbringers that living in a Rejoined world would be against his beliefs, saying, "But what value is there in surviving when all our history, all our struggles will be erased? I cannot conscience such an act."Hypocrisy at its finest no?

See now you’re changing up your story. First it was if she told them they wouldn’t believe her. Now that people have you objective evidence of the opposite, you’re trying to say they were doomed from the start. You’re literally trying to use Meteion’s logic here which just doesn’t work. Watch Minority report where it very clearly condemns the idea of destroy a society because of what MIGHT happen.

[jameseoakes]

So, for all the replies, there are plenty of reasons WHY Venat didn't tell the other Ancients.

Simply put, there was no point.

One of the worlds in the Dead Ends (pretty sure the final one) was where the Ancients were headed. That was established by SE.
The Ancients had no concept of hardship or despair. They were aetheric beings in which dynamis was very low to begin with.
Dynamis was essentially their kryptonite.

Venat was forewarned, and already saw the best thing the Ancients could come up with. Zodiark.
Blanket the world in Aether. Drown it in an aetheric shield, so dynamis is too weak to be of consequence.
Nothing more than a band-aid, but it was all they were capable of doing against it.

The world had to be sundered, to teach the various peoples hardship. Suffering. But also the joy and hope of things as well.

That is why we listen to Meteion's narrative during the Dead Ends, and see how things wrecked all those worlds.

The final world is the one for the Ancients, I believe.

"A star without strife, where none remembered life's trials or it's joys"
"What it's people had gained from ease, they lost to apathy"

That is what Elpis was like. There was no hardship. The Ancients were an idle people. They studied and created, sure.
But there was nothing like suffering at all. They could create anything they needed. They didn't really have to work for it.

This shows us why Venat chose to keep silent. In us she saw the future. The WoL shows her the drive and passion of humanity.
Because ultimately EW's story is a reflection of us. The will to go on, to never give up or surrender to despair. To hope for a better tomorrow.

That's been the story all along, to be honest. It's been humanity facing off against the Ascians. Standing up against despair, hopelessness, and all those other negative things. With the WoL acting as the bright shining beacon that brings hope to the world.

I'd happily take a slow descent into apathy over a world of constant misery and suffering. Venat just gave us a world where most people live short painful lives just to temper a few who might be hardended too it. Though nearly all the main cast are massively priveraged so not even affected by most of it

[AziraSyuren]

snip

The problem with comparing the Ancients to the Empty is that we weren't given much reason to believe they'd go down the same road outside of a vague parallel. Even if you allow the parallel- which honestly isn't that much of a stretch, as much as some people in this thread believe otherwise- it still doesn't morally justify the Sundering.

Not only that, Hermes already created a being that could manipulate Dynamis and there's little reason for Venat to believe that they couldn't create another to deal with Meteion, even if the Ancients themselves could not manipulate Dynamis. They had SO MUCH TIME to come up with a solution, I don't think you realize.

And even if you grant her everything, Venat's actions were still the result of ruthless utilitarian calculus that completely clashed with her portrayal in-game as an almost entirely benevolent being. It would be a lot less egregious were she actually portrayed as amoral and results-focused as her actions actually were. It's pretty horrid narrative dissonance at best.