What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[HollowedDoll]

Once you start going back in time and preventing tragedies, where does it stop? After we save the ancients, why don't we go back in time and save Minfilia, and Loiusiox, and every other npc we have ever lost. The cast can just start ballooning with alternative timeline versions of every character.

How could any tragedy ever have any impact if we could just go hop in the crystal tower and reverse it? I think it's better if time travel has some limitations on how you can influence past events. The 8UC stuff only works narratively because the WoL was so far removed from it.

Well, quite easy if you save the ancients these people don't die either.. say goodbye to Minfilia say hi to Mnemosyne, who is idly useless on Etheirys, quite the same character in retrospect.

I mean if Amon is just a shittier Hermes I don't see why anyone else's situation on the source would be much different.. Especially considering that it's showcased with your character Ardbert, Azem.

[AziraSyuren]

Yet, he still saw it as his duty to investigate the matter due to the fate of the star.. You know how people literally saw you and Venat enter the same building with Emet, Hythlo, and Hermes.. yet none of them remember a damn thing? Rather suspicious, but ofc handwave it. Also the majority's opinion doesn't really matter it's 14 dudes/dudettes who are relevant. I haven't played Pandenomium yet but I doubt what goes down there is like a major public knowledge either.

Maybe the WoL was just more charismatic than Venat, lmao

There's nothing to suggest that in-series, but it's a funny thought.

Couple things here. Number one, there is nothing to indicate they would really treat her as crazy. Especially if you realize yknow, the goddamn echo exists so she can literally show them exactly what happened.

Secondly….history can be changed. Do you not remember that iconic line from graha in Shb? “If history is to be unwritten, then let it be unwritten.” They literally created a branching timeline so the protagonists could be saved….so why can’t we do the same for the ancients?

It would've made sense if they tied the inability to truly change history into the method in which Elidibus sent us back but I don't think they did. Like, think about it. We were sent back as a shade that was only able to be restored because The Aether Seeing Guy noticed us. Why not explain it with that? Like the link to the past was too weak to ever change anything.

It's one of those unfortunate cases where a single line of dialogue could've made it a lot better.

[KizuyaKatogami]

Once you start going back in time and preventing tragedies, where does it stop? After we save the ancients, why don't we go back in time and save Minfilia, and Loiusiox, and every other npc we have ever lost. The cast can just start ballooning with alternative timeline versions of every character.

How could any tragedy ever have any impact if we could just go hop in the crystal tower and reverse it? I think it's better if time travel has some limitations on how you can influence past events. The 8UC stuff only works narratively because the WoL was so far removed from it.

So…you’re proving my point. Rules for thee as not for me. That’s something people have actually echoed many times though, that the current tragedies in the game have little to no impact because it’s constantly reversed. Tempering? Has a cure and preventive talisman now. Yshtola using flow and supposedly having a shorter lifespan and draining? Not even mentioned since HW. 8UC? Oh sure go ahead and time travel and potentially sacrifice billions of lives if it’s to save our hero. Ultima Thule sacrifices? Oh no worries, no need to deal with loss and suffering like the expansion preaches, your friends can all come back.

TLDR: It’s okay when we do it countless times, but for the one time to save the ancients, it’s wrong, it would just lead to ballooning etc. Funny how no one was saying that when it was brought up in ShB to save the main cast.

[Theodric]

World of Warcraft tried its hand at awkward, selective fanservice where fans of certain characters, factions and playable races were screwed over repeatedly whilst bestowing every advantage and plot armour to the same select few characters at every turn. It didn't work out in that game's favour, so there's no reason to believe that it'd work out here either.

Especially when resentment is growing towards the Scions on many fronts as of late due to overexposure and a lack of stakes.

A story where the consequences only exist for the antagonists isn't particularly compelling and since the development team lack the stones to follow through with even a single major death amongst the major protagonist characters then there's little point in pursuing a continued stance of wildly unbalanced fanservice.

[KariTheFox]

I think that the story of the ancients actually has a tragic pathos to it. If we could just reverse it because we were so clever and cool, I think that would kill some of it.

I get that you guys liked Emet-Selch and don't want to let him go, I like him too. But he's dead, let that tradegy actually carry some weight.

[Theodric]

I think that the story of the ancients actually has a tragic pathos to it. If we could just reverse it because we were so clever and cool, I think that would kill some of it.

I get that you guys liked Emet-Selch and don't want to let him go, I like him too. But he's dead, let that tradegy actually carry some weight.

When that applies to the major protagonists? Sure. Until then, I'll continue to push for the hypocrisy of 'rules for thee but not for me' to be exposed for what it is.

I actually prefer tragic and bittersweet stories, though a key point in that enjoyment is consistency. There's nothing consistent about what the Ancients were forced to endure and when time travel, memory loss and all manner of other strange plot devices are blended together it ceases to be a case of 'tragedy' and more of a bizarre fever dream.

[Xirean]

Once you start going back in time and preventing tragedies, where does it stop? After we save the ancients, why don't we go back in time and save Minfilia, and Loiusiox, and every other npc we have ever lost. The cast can just start ballooning with alternative timeline versions of every character.

How could any tragedy ever have any impact if we could just go hop in the crystal tower and reverse it? I think it's better if time travel has some limitations on how you can influence past events. The 8UC stuff only works narratively because the WoL was so far removed from it.

This is actually a good argument to not have time travel or undoing tragedies in the first place.

I think that the story of the ancients actually has a tragic pathos to it. If we could just reverse it because we were so clever and cool, I think that would kill some of it.

I get that you guys liked Emet-Selch and don't want to let him go, I like him too. But he's dead, let that tradegy actually carry some weight.

I don't give a crap about saving Emet. Don't expect me to time travel in a world where I know that branching timelines exist and not try to make a branching timeline.

[HollowedDoll]

I think that the story of the ancients actually has a tragic pathos to it. If we could just reverse it because we were so clever and cool, I think that would kill some of it.

I get that you guys liked Emet-Selch and don't want to let him go, I like him too. But he's dead, let that tradegy actually carry some weight.

We reverse a ton of things because we're so clever and cool, Tampering no more, G'raha is alive, Eden, Ystolha's constantly being pulled back from primordial soup, bet we'll go save the void too and hell, let's not even stop there and stop the heat death of the universe too.

[KariTheFox]

This is actually a good argument to not have time travel or undoing tragedies in the first place.



I don't give a crap about saving Emet. Don't expect me to time travel in a world where I know that branching timelines exist and not try to make a branching timeline.

I admit to having protagonist perspective bias here, but to me the main and important difference between the ancients and the 8UC is that one is a tragedy you would be trying to undo, and the other is a tragic future you are working to prevent. Do other stories handle time travel better? Sure. But I can forgive FFXIV because the time travel is just a vehicle for getting various pieces into place to tell the actual relevant story.

[redheadturk]

I think that the story of the ancients actually has a tragic pathos to it. If we could just reverse it because we were so clever and cool, I think that would kill some of it.

I get that you guys liked Emet-Selch and don't want to let him go, I like him too. But he's dead, let that tradegy actually carry some weight.

F the "tragedy carrying weight" I would give anything to be able to bring my Ancient buds back.