What is going on with Square Enix and the 14 team?

[Akimori]

2.) Hrothgar and Viera problems. It was known since the beginning that these were "Limited" races. And before these races were even revealed to us Yoshida said he wasn't going to make new races due to manpower/resources. But surprise. Anyways, they were limited for reasons. Player base knew they were limited but still chose to cry about it after they changed.

Imagine telling players of said races that they would receive updates, not give it to them without telling them you changed your mind, and then trying to place the blame on the players

Are people really this much of a clown?

What is with this rampant blind support of obvious problems being like "WeLl ThE pLaYeRs KnEw". The issue here is not so much the hair (at least not to me). Its the empty promises of being told "Please keep waiting" only to be thrown garbage....

A friend of mine echoed your sentiment. He used a pretty bad analogy

"Me: Imagine if yoshi asked you to borrow $200, said he'd give it back ASAP and 10 years later, he didn't give it back

Him: He may have taken the $200, but he gave you a mansion

Me: The walls are falling in, the electricity and plumbing are faulty, and there are holes all in the roof and the walls. Doesnt matter if he gave me a mansion, its still in a deplorable condition that makes it almost unlivable...."

We no longer talk about XIV together anymore (we still talk. Just no longer about XIV because he knows how passionate I am about this subject...)(

[SherlottaEryut]

Imagine telling players of said races that they would receive updates, not give it to them without telling them you changed your mind, and then trying to place the blame on the players

Are people really this much of a clown?

What is with this rampant blind support of obvious problems being like "WeLl ThE pLaYeRs KnEw". The issue here is not so much the hair (at least not to me). Its the empty promises of being told "Please keep waiting" only to be thrown garbage....

A friend of mine echoed your sentiment. He used a pretty bad analogy

"Me: Imagine if yoshi asked you to borrow $200, said he'd give it back ASAP and 10 years later, he didn't give it back

Him: He may have taken the $200, but he gave you a mansion

Me: The walls are falling in, the electricity and plumbing are faulty, and there are wholes all in the roof and the walls. Doesnt matter if he gave me a mansion, its still in a deplorable condition that makes it almost unlivable...."

We no longer talk about XIV together anymore (we still talk. Just no longer about XIV because he knows how passionate I am about this subject...)(

+1
Much yes.

[Liam_Harper]

What is with this rampant blind support of obvious problems being like "WeLl ThE pLaYeRs KnEw". The issue here is not so much the hair (at least not to me). Its the empty promises of being told "Please keep waiting" only to be thrown garbage....

I don't even get why "but players knew" is an argument against feedback in the first place.

Lets say you have a favorite restaurant. You like it, but the menu is a bit boring and hasn't changed at all in years so customers request some variety. The restaurant adds a few new dishes, but tells you that cooking food is hard, so they're going to cut a few ingredients, half cook it and leave the occasional bit of turd in it. But they might cook it properly later!

Customers respond with the feedback that "hey, half done meals with surprise turds aren't very appealing, we aren't happy" and next thing a small group of random people appear out of nowhere, shove them back and yell at them them to shut up, eat it and that they should be happy to pay money for it because the restaurant told them the food would be crap from the start.

Makes no sense? Exactly.

[Midareyukki]

I don't even get why "but players knew" is an argument against feedback in the first place.

Lets say you have a favorite restaurant. You like it, but the menu is a bit boring and hasn't changed at all in years so customers request some variety. The restaurant adds a few new dishes, but tells you that cooking food is hard, so they're going to cut a few ingredients, half cook it and leave the occasional bit of turd in it. But they might cook it properly later!

Customers respond with the feedback that "hey, half done meals with surprise turds aren't very appealing, we aren't happy" and next thing a small group of random people appear out of nowhere, shove them back and yell at them them to shut up, eat it and that they should be happy to pay money for it because the restaurant told them the food would be crap from the start.

Makes no sense? Exactly.

We knew only part of it. We didn't know it would be as hard a "No" as it ended up becoming. We didn't know that the devs would begrudgingly work on this. What we did know was that at the time of release we wouldn't have as much stuff, but they'd be added as the game evolved. Especially with player feedback. That's always been their initial promise. And they haven't done anything to change that tune.

So saying "You guys knew you'd have a bad quality product" is not only erroneous, but grossly insulting. No one at the time knew. Not a single one. And even if we knew, SO WHAT.

Viera as a whole got implemented because people asked. Same for male viera, they're only in the game to begin with because people asked. Blue Mage, for all its troubles, got added because people asked. So much crap in this game only exists because people asked.

We didn't know that the races they'd implement would forever have terrible quality. And saying we should know any better is the most White Knight thing one could do, it makes Paladins look dark. Because from the information we had at the time, no one thought it'd get to this state.

[LisSquid]

We didn't know that the devs would begrudgingly work on this. ... We didn't know that the races they'd implement would forever have terrible quality.

I'm glad you said it, because I can't help feeling like the team scolds us for pointing it out. When someone asked about the state of female Hrothgar, the air felt almost resentful. Why even make them, then? What was the point?

[Midareyukki]

I'm glad you said it, because I can't help feeling like the team scolds us for pointing it out. When someone asked about the state of female Hrothgar, the air felt almost resentful. Why even make them, then? What was the point?

It's as I said in the Hrothgar hair thread about twice now. No one asked for Hrothgar, not even the furry fandom thought it'd be done. At least, there wasn't as much of a demand as Viera, and that one demand happened because of concept art from early Heavensward. Square themselves thought it was a good idea to add Hrothgar. Which <--- you can tell I honestly like. But given how they're being treated, one really needs to ask what changed. Why are they so resentful?

I think it was StormChurro who said that maybe the reason they're so resentful is because, to them, the races were complete? But there was no indication that they were, and after 3 years of listening to fans of both Viera and Hrothgar complain that they wanted more and wanted to be treated like all the other races, how did they not see it coming?

[Liam_Harper]

It's as I said in the Hrothgar hair thread about twice now. No one asked for Hrothgar, not even the furry fandom thought it'd be done. At least, there wasn't as much of a demand as Viera, and that one demand happened because of concept art from early Heavensward. Square themselves thought it was a good idea to add Hrothgar. Which <--- you can tell I honestly like. But given how they're being treated, one really needs to ask what changed. Why are they so resentful?

If there's any resentment, they're being petty about it.

There's no doubt Viera, including male Viera, were a massive success. They're popular and have a high population percentage as far as races go. They probably made the company a ridiculous amount in fantasia sales. And that's only the half done version with limited hats and hairstyles, imagine if they were fully polished.

SE's idea for a race was not a success. As nice as Hrothgar are to have, they just aren't popular at all. As it turns out, players knew what they wanted and their feedback was a huge benefit to the company.

You think they'd learn and listen to the fans, instead of resenting them.

[SturmChurro]

I'm glad you said it, because I can't help feeling like the team scolds us for pointing it out. When someone asked about the state of female Hrothgar, the air felt almost resentful. Why even make them, then? What was the point?

If they knew this game would have a 10-year plan at the time, I bet hrothgar would have never been released.

I seriously doubt they want to release female hrothgar. They are probably only doing it out of obligation since male viera set the precedent of the counterparts being released, but also to show they are listening.

I missed this..

I think it was StormChurro who said that maybe the reason they're so resentful is because, to them, the races were complete? But there was no indication that they were, and after 3 years of listening to fans of both Viera and Hrothgar complain that they wanted more and wanted to be treated like all the other races, how did they not see it coming?

Yes, these races were complete to them. They were meant to be limited from the outset, and they were never even originally supposed to have male viera. They stated the only reason they have minor headgear is because some devs took time out of their days to make them work. They have stated the only reason male viera exists, is because devs supposedly spent their free time making male viera available for the community. I think they view any updates to these races as bonuses, rather than finishing something incomplete.

They stated prior to release that they wouldn't get headgear, they have stated time and time again about their custom heads making updates to them difficult. They constantly reiterate this, and even posted such again in the hrothgar hair thread. They probably see the community as demanding updates, for something that was never meant to be expected in the first place.

[CrownySuccubus]

I seriously doubt they want to release female hrothgar. They are probably only doing it out of obligation since male viera set the precedent of the counterparts being released, but also to show they are listening.

No, female Roe and male Miqote are what set that precedent.

People forget that they were gender-locked races in 1.0.

[SturmChurro]

No, female Roe and male Miqote are what set that precedent.

People forget that they were gender-locked races in 1.0.

Nope. Different circumstances, and neither race are limited, and weren't stated as being the "last chance" for new races to be made available, as far as I am aware. They stated prior to release of both viera and hrothgar, exactly how expensive it is to create and maintain a race. That by making these races available, at the time, they could just maintain their patch schedule.