DPS/Healers pulling in dungeons

[Minali]

"Don't play with other people in an MMO if you want to enjoy an MMO like an MMO because I want to be out of this duty asap so I don't have to play this MMO longer than necessary" is a pretty wild take. Because this is basically what "go in with duty support/trust" means. It is a game that attracts both people who usually rather play solo and people who like to play with others, where the story is the main selling point, that's what the franchise is famous for and what kept FF1 from being an actual final fantasy. And the dungeons are part of the story, not just their existence, but also the whole battle experience, getting to know new mechanics, wiping the floor with the face of a boss you hate, reading notes, or seeing NPCs at the sidelines "fighting with you", shooting doors open for you and what not. You might have been in this part of the story already 1000 times and just want to farm memories for your relic weapon or so, but that doesn't mean everyone else has to miss out on their own experience because they dare to try and enjoy the dungeon with real people, as you would expect to be able to in a Massive Multiplayer Online game.

I play all roles, including tanks. I am okay with both slow runs with sprouts and reading all the notes and with fast runs for farming - as long as both the healer and the tank communicate which speed they want. (When I am tank I always ask right in the beginning, and if there is no reply I go with two mob groups. Which is "wall to wall" in most dungeons past ARR anyway.) Unless you go in a duty with people you know, just assuming everyone is "of course" on your page because the way you play is "obviously the standard", no matter which it is, can cause so much frustration. That's why the chat is so important, to get these things out of the way before frustration occurs. Of course chatting doesn't help if one is personally not willing to cooperate and compromise or if whatever the tank is doing is still not fast enough.
This really makes me wonder why they are playing this duty if getting out of it as fast as possible is their greatest concern. Sure, you don't have to do sightseeing on your 2000. time in Aurum Vale or do every room in Haukke, but some people seem to get really angry if a duty dares to take longer than the absolute minimum. If engaging with other people, engaging with the bosses, playing their job, adjusting to whatever mechanics there are and being bound to a duty for an average of 15-20 minutes (with variations, not counting queue times,) is so painful and stressful for them... why are they playing these dungeon roulettes? Life is short, do something that is actually fun for you.

[Vahlnir]

I honestly don't have a problem with going faster. Some people do. I'm not gonna force them, nor am I gonna relegate them to bots only because some people get snippy about "their time." You aren't the only one playing and there is a default to how the game is played, so sometimes you're gonna be slowed down. Oh well!

Yeah. It might be annoying or almost physically painful to move through a dungeon at a glacial pace, but I'm not going to force anyone's hand. I'll just suck it up, maybe afk for a few minutes after it's over to get right with the lord and I'll be good to go.

[technole]

And? In The Tower of Babil I like to show off how good I am at tanking dungeons by using Provoke for the final pull to get the mobs from the bottom platform to come up to us.

If you're gunbreaker, put the regen on the puller the mobs come right to you.

Work smarter, don't get mad.

[Jijifli]

And don't queue leveling roulette or 50/60/70 if you expect an 8 minute speed run. Get FC mates or PF folks if you want a like minded run like that

Ya hold on let me just ask my fc real quick if they wanna-- Wait the times I wanna bother with roulettes, there's never really anyone on. Oh well surely I can try the Party Fin-- Wait why are the people coming with me in previous expac stuff? I didn't actually sign up to do Sirensong with people in Ironworks, but here we are (Exact example).

Your example only works with people who want to be on the same page. And sadly, no matter what you're doing, nobody will be on the same page.

I wish I could just have faster runs. Sadly, no matter my options, it's out of my control. Sometimes the tank actually wants to pull, the healer wants to use their damage abilities, and the dps wanna actually have more than a single damage per second, and things go quick in 10-15. And other times, they're taking a 45+ minute slog of hell where I question why I didn't just run with an AI that could have gone twice as fast as them despite being designed to be slow.

But my personal opinion? I think it's good for people to learn to do better.

As just a bonus though. I am glad you think "Can't focus" means the person you quoted wants it done in new record time. Those painfully painfully long runs are not a joke. And if you're going to queue into content, I think at the bare minimum we can agree on, is you showed up for that content. You don't join in other various examples of activities (sports, card games, even something like a study group) and then decide when you get there you're just gonna watch netflix loudly in the corner. So why is it once it's a video game in paticular, it's suddenly different? It's stuff something to spend my time in enjoyment, and your action that hurts my enjoyment because you didn't even want to do the thing you agreed to do isn't exactly kind. Specially when, in this case, you doing that denied someone else that spot, someone who probably did want to do it.

[Broken_Wind]

Ya hold on let me just ask my fc real quick if they wanna-- Wait the times I wanna bother with roulettes, there's never really anyone on. Oh well surely I can try the Party Fin-- Wait why are the people coming with me in previous expac stuff? I didn't actually sign up to do Sirensong with people in Ironworks, but here we are (Exact example).

Your example only works with people who want to be on the same page. And sadly, no matter what you're doing, nobody will be on the same page.

I wish I could just have faster runs. Sadly, no matter my options, it's out of my control. Sometimes the tank actually wants to pull, the healer wants to use their damage abilities, and the dps wanna actually have more than a single damage per second, and things go quick in 10-15. And other times, they're taking a 45+ minute slog of hell where I question why I didn't just run with an AI that could have gone twice as fast as them despite being designed to be slow.

But my personal opinion? I think it's good for people to learn to do better.

As just a bonus though. I am glad you think "Can't focus" means the person you quoted wants it done in new record time. Those painfully painfully long runs are not a joke. And if you're going to queue into content, I think at the bare minimum we can agree on, is you showed up for that content. You don't join in other various examples of activities (sports, card games, even something like a study group) and then decide when you get there you're just gonna watch netflix loudly in the corner. So why is it once it's a video game in paticular, it's suddenly different? It's stuff something to spend my time in enjoyment, and your action that hurts my enjoyment because you didn't even want to do the thing you agreed to do isn't exactly kind. Specially when, in this case, you doing that denied someone else that spot, someone who probably did want to do it.

This thread is specifically about the people that can't chill for 5 seconds, right?
It is not about a 20+ minute run (which is very rare). or even a 15 minute run.

Also the analogy is more like signing up for a cardio class and expecting everyone to do HIIT

And better does not necessarily mean faster. Many would consider a 12 minute run where people interact 'better' than an 11 minute run where no one says anything and the experience is essentially a squadron run.

[shadowclasper]

As a tank if someone does this after I ask them not too? I just let them die and wait until they've calmed the fuck down. I ain't on a schedule or a deadline. And in many of their own words 'they don't pay my sub'.

They want me to go faster?

ask

use words.

But don't make my life harder and us more likely to wipe.

I'm happy to do big pulls, hell, if the healer is on the absolute ball I might risk a wall to wall with a pug. But until I got a feel for the group I'm gonna take it easy unless specifically asked otherwise.

[Nethereal]

This thread is specifically about the people that can't chill for 5 seconds, right?
It is not about a 20+ minute run (which is very rare). or even a 15 minute run.

Also the analogy is more like signing up for a cardio class and expecting everyone to do HIIT

And better does not necessarily mean faster. Many would consider a 12 minute run where people interact 'better' than an 11 minute run where no one says anything and the experience is essentially a squadron run.

This thread is about people who are playing the game.

They're pulling after everyone has presumably shown they're ready by participating in the pull, this isn't about people who pull bosses after someone has asked for a second/minute if it was I'm sure the OP would've said so.
A 15 & 20 minute run is not rare at all in the content in which this conversations relevance is at.
You're most likely going to get a 15 & 20 minute run in content below level 80 because they're "new", single pulling, or a free stylist.

Anyone above level 80 is not new and shouldn't be doing single pulls which is one of the base requirements to get a run above 15 minutes.

The actual analogy is signing up for cardio and expecting people to actually be doing the cardio and not on their phone.

The variance is too low, everyone will choose to be having more fun in exchange for 1 extra minute.

As a tank if someone does this after I ask them not too? I just let them die and wait until they've calmed the fuck down.

Best hope the healer is on board with you because your job is not only not required to clear content but it might as well be replaced with another dps if you're not double pulling.
The only reason anyone would die to a tank not pulling aggro is because the healer let them die, not because of your power trip.

I might risk a wall to wall with a pug.

A sentence that speaks for itself.

[Broken_Wind]

They're pulling after everyone has presumably shown they're ready

I'm actually the OP, and this is about the people who are pulling when its not clear everyone is ready. I specifically mentioned its not a wall 2 wall discussion
If the tank is standing still for 2 seconds they arent ready. If someone isnt in the zone yet they arent ready
And yes, mistakes happen from time to time, weve all been there. but there are plenty of people in this thread who think its okay behavior so its definitely not all mistakes

And this also isn't meant to be about lvl 90 dungeons (not mentioned in the first post), its behavior seen across low/mid level dungeons in particular.

Of course, silly me who hasnt visited threads like this before, didnt realize it would devolve into YPYT (which I disagree with, but if you are going to pull finish the pull and bring it to the tank. turning off tank stance is lame and screws the other two people) or single vs wall 2 wall.

For the record I *don't* pull wall 2 wall everywhere. Its not worth the risk to me in a place like Ampador Keep where 2 beefy pulls per section are fine. But I do it in most places.

[Saraide]

As a tank if someone does this after I ask them not too? I just let them die and wait until they've calmed the fuck down. I ain't on a schedule or a deadline. And in many of their own words 'they don't pay my sub'.

They want me to go faster?

ask

use words.

But don't make my life harder and us more likely to wipe.

I'm happy to do big pulls, hell, if the healer is on the absolute ball I might risk a wall to wall with a pug. But until I got a feel for the group I'm gonna take it easy unless specifically asked otherwise.

Any pull that is risky is a guaranteed wipe if you let one of the dps die. You are contributing to wiping far more than any dps or healer pulling for you. This idea that dps dont matter for dungeons is fundamentally false.

[pikalovr]

oh no the tank is afk for 5 seconds while the party moves on if we follow your example and take 5 seconds to get a drink of water there's these handy dandy little skills called sprint, gap closers (if available), and auto run (and unless you take two hands to drink for those 5 seconds which i doubt. you still have a free hand to at least move your character without auto run). and has been mentioned before most DPS can sustain a pull or two with a decent healer hell i've kited mobs when the tanks died as ranged phys or smn

if they're not dying then it's no sweat off your back to take your break. if they die then blame you yes it's their fault, but if you sprint catch up and they're fine then there's literally nothing wrong with it what's so hard about that? if they want to be proactive while you take a drink of water and don't die from it, there's no reason they should stop everything cause you want a drink of water

also if you think standing still for a few secs= AFK/not ready without any prior typing in chat you're sorely mistaken the only semi decent conclusion you can deduce from that is it's a PS4/5 player typing something or that they are typing that they're going AFK if you're on M+KB you can literally lose one GCD and type BRB after this and alot more people would be willing to stop anyways