DPS/Healers pulling in dungeons

[MintnHoney]

Does a sprout with no job, viewing cutscene and their level not being sync with the pop up "a member is new to this duty" need to tell he is new or it's obvious enough?

Considering that we do have players that level up alt characters, which appear as sprouts, who know how to play these jobs to great effect, yes, it's a good idea to get used to typing words at people. And even if they're not an alt, some players are more adept at playing games, even this one, than others. We can't assume either way, but if the pace ramps up and no one says anything then it's no one's fault if someone feels too much pressure except for the person who didn't speak up.

[LittleImp]

YPYT will never not be pathetic behavior, regardless of how you view the DPS pulling issue.

[Vahlnir]

YPYT will never not be pathetic behavior, regardless of how you view the DPS pulling issue.

Yep. It's just petty. I used to be THAT guy once upon a time but eventually I realized the error of my ways. It accomplishes nothing but slowing everyone down and making oneself look like a complete tool.

[TaleraRistain]

In this scenario, the tank should type in chat asking that the DPS/Healer not pull ahead of them. And to do so without snippy remarks implying how they'll let them die or whatever. A simple, "Pls don't pull ahead. I'm still getting used to tanking" would suffice. If they continuously do so, then the tank has a better argument. Granted, in most cases, GMs will advise you to simply leave the dungeon. Now you could argue the DPS/Healer should ask beforehand, and we can certainly debate that.

Nevertheless, when the DPS/Healer pull, they aren't intending to cause a wipe even if one occurs. A tank refusing to take aggro is deliberately griefing another player. The intent is what separates the two.

They don't listen. I've seen it as the tank and healer and one of the dps. And I've seen a couple of the reasons why in this thread. The dps or healer are bored or have the "You gon' learn" type mentality that they get to decide where the tank's limits are, even if the tank has directly stated them. And people just think this is okay. They don't have to think about anyone else in their party, just themselves.

Best thing a tank can do is just try to AoE so nobody can try to claim they were griefing and if there's a wipe, well, they did try to warn them.

[Nethereal]

Does a sprout with no job, viewing cutscene and their level not being sync with the pop up "a member is new to this duty" need to tell he is new or it's obvious enough?

Hate to be that person but in a situation where you're not needed(I.E. everyone is pulling without you just fine) that's the best place to learn.
Your personal failures have no weight on the party and you can take your time adjusting to how things are going to be.

[rewd]

So now I have questions for you.
1. Why do you think I argue in bad faith? Do my questions not stem from logic?
2. What mathematical/statistical merits do you think make DPS the better pullers? -I’m bored and impatient aren’t statistics.

"If the tank AFKs it is customary to wait for them unless they say go ahead without me". No, if someone AFKs, it is customary to wait for them. The role they play is completely irrelevant, which is why you should be more precise on what "waiting for the tank" actually entails.

1. Because you dodged my question and came up with a false equivalence. You are still arguing in bad faith because there is no way you could read the previous replies and deduce "Yep, these guys are saying that DPS/healers should actually always pull and that they are objectivelly better equipped to do so". What we are saying is that who pulls ultimately doesn't matter.
2. Wrong question aside (see my previous reply), we do have reasons as to why a DPS pulling is not the end of the world/optimal. Some DPS have Arm's Lenght, which is (also) a mitigation tool. Pulling a group of enemies, letting AL pop and letting the tank take over is optimal. DPS also have cooldowns and buffs to keep up. Should a BRD lose a fully charged Pitch Perfect because they can't pull? Should a DNC lose a Standard (or worse, Technical) Step because they can't pull? Dualcast? Summon charges? And so on? For no good reason at all?

4. It may be an unspoken rule. But I don’t think it should be. Hence an official statement or guide would be helpful.

This doesn't make sense. You think a tank should always pull - valid, it's your opinion. We are debating. There's is no official statement nor guide that speaks against a non-tank pulling. We have, however, an official statement that clearly says that behaviour you are condoning in this very topic is forbidden/reportable. So what gives?

[EnigmaticDodo]

As someone who likes tanking dungeons I've noticed a trend, at least on Materia, of DPS and Healers deciding to pull.

This can be in the form of using a ranged attack on an enemy I haven't reached yet (waiting to get into melee range for an AoE). Or if I pause for 3 seconds after a boss to take a drink of water, by the time I put the bottle back down the DPS has run off

I am not talking about the case where the tank only pulls one or two packs and the healer is encouraging to pull more by bringing a few friends. This isn't a small packs vs wall to wall issue.

I don't remember really ever seeing this on NA/JP DCs but maybe that's changed too?
Is this something players on other DCs are seeing?

This is something people do to me when I tank and I don't actually care. Do you know why that is? You usually have to do a single attack or perhaps... TWO!? to get your aggro back. It's not that big of a deal.

I will admit that I do it too and usually it isn't a big deal, but then you'll get a cry baby every once in a while who can't be bothered to press buttons they were already pressing because i tOoK CoNtRoL FrOm ThEm. I just take the penalty once they freak out.

[Ath192]

"If the tank AFKs it is customary to wait for them unless they say go ahead without me". No, if someone AFKs, it is customary to wait for them. The role they play is completely irrelevant

Did you read the rest of the sentence? I'd say this was selectively clipped in bad faith...

We have, however, an official statement that clearly says that behaviour you are condoning in this very topic is forbidden/reportable.

I gave you examples of how a DPS pulling could be perceived as aiding the enemy. So the rule isn't as clear cut as you make it out to be. Are you also choosing to ignore that?

Some DPS have Arm's Lenght, which is (also) a mitigation tool. Pulling a group of enemies, letting AL pop and letting the tank take over is optimal.

No.... Its not lol. in an optimal scenario a tank hits sprint lands an AOE on each pack until they reach a natural wall. Getting the DPS to pull off arms length on 2 packs of mobs and then having the tank get aggro off him before the dps dies would be a bit of a nightmare. Especially because that ability sometimes has a weird delay and doesn't go off on the first hit. Not to mention tanks also have them and you would be burning some of the healers OGCDs on the DPS unless they choose to leave him with 30-40% HP

[feffe]

Popping sprint and doing big pulls is the meta. If you’re not popping sprint, people are gonna pull for you. Atleast that’s what I noticed. I always sprint and pull multiple groups and nobody pulls for me. So there’s that.

This is it, just keep normal pull pace and no one will pull for you, that someone is pulling for you is just indicating that you're not going fast enough for normal players and you need to speed up.

[Coletergeist]

So now I have questions for you.
1. Why do you think I argue in bad faith? Do my questions not stem from logic?
2. What mathematical/statistical merits do you think make DPS the better pullers? -I’m bored and impatient aren’t statistics.

I mean, the logic is sort of already here in this thread, is it not?
Sure, tanks have higher enmity skills and higher defense, but that doesn't mean that when dps or healers pull, they can't just grab that aggro if it's brought to them. It's...really not that deep my friend. This isn't algebra.