Handling Cheaters Gracefully vs Hardline ToS + Questionable legality of bans

[Larirawiel]

Or simply do not use automated enforcement, expand the enforcement team so they can have actual eyes on the problems to enforce the rules against the actual cheaters. Automated tools that not only eliminate the QOL mods and accessibility mods that disabled people use, but also eliminate mac and linux users, and would actually eliminate console users as well as consoles cannot run anticheat are not the answer. Extra enforcement staff to catch and punish cheaters is

Hey, i am not for client side anticheat mechanisms because i know their limitations and what harm they can cause for the overall security state of a client. And it seems to me, that some people vastly overestimate which things are possible with those anticheat tools or what SQEX can do on the server side. And no, "look into the log" is not a good solution. It is very personal ressources consuming. Reading and analyzing logs is not a trivial task. And logs are not very accurate. Trying to figure out, whether a reaction of a player is "not possible as a human" or not would be maaaaaybe possible in a zero latency environment between clients and servers. But the internet is not zero latency. And because it is not guaranteed, that the ip packets will always take the same route between client and server, there will always be situations, which look like "reaction is not possible as a human" in the logs and the player is not guilty using cheats. Sorry, the whole thing is not so easy as it seems.

No we don't need in-game NSFW mods, that sounds like a way too lose a lot of revenue! Would change the rating of the game and could possibly get the game banned by many cultures due to laws/religion etc.

That is the reason why i used the word "maybe". A lot of mods are for nsfw content.

But they could start with sfw content first. More hairstyles, more faces, more clothes ...




Cheers

[redheadturk]

Hey, i am not for client side anticheat mechanisms because i know their limitations and what harm they can cause for the overall security state of a client. And it seems to me, that some people vastly overestimate which things are possible with those anticheat tools or what SQEX can do on the server side. And no, "look into the log" is not a good solution. It is very personal ressources consuming. Reading and analyzing logs is not a trivial task. And logs are not very accurate. Trying to figure out, whether a reaction of a player is "not possible as a human" or not would be maaaaaybe possible in a zero latency environment between clients and servers. But the internet is not zero latency. And because it is not guaranteed, that the ip packets will always take the same route between client and server, there will always be situations, which look like "reaction is not possible as a human" in the logs and the player is not guilty using cheats. Sorry, the whole thing is not so easy as it seems.




That is the reason why i used the word "maybe". A lot of mods are for nsfw content.

But they could start with sfw content first. More hairstyles, more faces, more clothes ...




Cheers

A few false positives with actual real people that can be reversed later are better than wholesale eliminating accessibility for disabled people that use mods for such. I will always advocate for enforcement by real people over automated tools, and I will never support automated tools, whether server or client side.

[Syln]

I think squeenix is already really permissive about mods and other activity which is great.

Now i would love them to say outright : you can use any mods that enhance or modify visual as much as you want (even parsing tool as long as you don't even make the slightest allusion about it) but if you're caught using automation tool, we will ban your account so hard every alt you create on a new account will have a default limp walking animation.

[Doc_Seraph]

Kupo they should just have a board in town that shames all the 'proven' cheaters. jk <3 kupo

[ForteNightshade]

As much as I love it, the cheating now rampant in CC is a perfect example of why the devs really shouldn't bother anymore with PvP.

You do realize these cheats are just as pervasive in the crafting community, yes? The only difference is crafting and market board shenanigans are both a niche activity and most players benefit from markets crashing into the ground. Thus, they don't care one way or another about MB bots. Now that PvP in gaining popularity amongst the more casual demographic, suddenly it's shining a giant beacon on how woefully inept SE's handling of cheaters has been. Put simply, they do virtually nothing unless you're downright blatant about it.

Perhaps this will finally force the dev team to actually expand their "Special Task Force" and maybe do something about bot programs and cheaters for once.

[Katori96]

Being entirely honest the pvp cheats have been around for a very long time. The current popularity in PvP seems very temporary compared to the PvE content. Hell I've seen some crazy things people have done in the past against the cheaters and a fuss is only coming out now because its the only content available until Tuesday. Im not saying that its right to cheat at all but it certainly has been around just people got better at the game than the cheaters.

More or less this entire thing boils down to this question:

Yes PvP is well received now but will it be next season if they take action on it or is it condemned to becoming like the Feast all over again?

[Araxes]

I guess i am the only person that hopes they take a hard stance against Cheats/Addons/Mods.

I suffered my way up to Crystal by not giving up and improving myself in the given environments. All i achieved is now worthless cause people will just assume im another cheater.

[JanVanding]

Gaslighting.

Something smells like you're one of those people that have been scripting in PvP and now with the spotlight fully on it, you're afraid of a perma ban.

I see how you tried to use "Having mods bannable in the ToS of a service like FFXIV is not actually legal, at least in the US. Of course"

Actually it is 100% a bannable offense because of one major line you click agree on in every single EULA:

"We reserve the right at any time and for any reason to restrict or terminate accounts"

The fact you bring this up now, that all the big Twitch personalities are on this, speaks absolute VOLUMES about your guilt

If you are scripting in a competitive mode, you are cheating, you are ruining the gameplay experience of everyone else for your own gain.

Don't try to garner sympathy or gaslight people if you've been doing that, own it, you shouldn't have done it and that's that.

Edit: To clarify, I don't give a damn what you do with your own gameplay experience, mod yourself to look like a giant spongebob, whatever

As soon as you start negatively impacting the gameplay of others, you have crossed a line.

The line was not bringing scripts into Competitive PvP and using it to climb ranks.

[IdowhatIwant]

When you want to talk about banning cheaters but end up talking about free speech and not wanting to ban people because they are dicks you've definitely lost focus on the problem.
Its almost as if you have a different agenda here...

He wants the ERP mods and to ERP with out the threat of being banned.

He also doesn't understand that he technically doesn't own the product.

[Andeeria]

Well the only consensus possible would be to entact strict policy on third party stuff, while simultaneously finally providing a proper, official addon engine / sdk/ api for the game.

And while yes, I understand the community concerns about XIV turning then into an addon driven game like WoW, albeit it's Blizzard's own fault for not moderating the addons and allowing them to grow so big, they even played into it by designing modern fights around Boss Mods and WeakAuras.

Blizzard has an option to disable any unwanted addon function, they did it couple of times when they thought it's too much, similar way Square could just disallow creating of boss mods or dps meters, but leave all the QoL stuff people would like to have.

Having officially sanctioned repository for addons would technically even make them doable on consoles (similar how you can have mods for Bethesda games over Creation Club, or extra WAD-s for classic DOOM console release).

I really don't think it will ever happen, but you can always dream.