A simple solution to combat all the cheating!

[albeva]

Simple "Report Player" in PvP scenarios have been shown to be targets for misuse again and again. Both unintentional and malicious. Most recently New World is a prime example of this.

Also got to love "hire more GMs", "develop advanced logs" - All that costs money, human resources, time and MONEY. SE will weigh pros and cons very carefully before committing resources. Even then analysing player behaviour from logs can be EXTREMELY complex and time-intensive task.

I am not arguing against a way to detect & ban cheaters. However, the report button alone is a naive approach to dealing with a very complex problem.

[Ranaku]

Simple "Report Player" in PvP scenarios have been shown to be targets for misuse again and again. Both unintentional and malicious. Most recently New World is a prime example of this.

Also got to love "hire more GMs", "develop advanced logs" - All that costs money, human resources, time and MONEY. SE will weigh pros and cons very carefully before committing resources. Even then analysing player behaviour from logs can be EXTREMELY complex and time-intensive task.

I am not arguing against a way to detect & ban cheaters. However, the report button alone is a naive approach to dealing with a very complex problem.

The only other ways are either implementing a anti cheat software which they already said they won't do cause it would go against the law in certain countries. The other way would be to ignore the problem would lead to the death of CC cause people will lose interest in it when the top 100 are all just pvp bots and you can't have a fun match without getting nuked by cheaters.

The literally only way is to do this easy report system and make sure there are gamemasters who can view matches so they see if something shady goes on or if it's just "skill". All the other options will lead to the destruction of either the entire pvp gamemode or the destruction of half the playerbase like gposers, roleplayers, the housing community, large part of the raiding community and guide makers cause they won't have access to logs without third party tools which they need to gather data. It would mean the complete death of the western playerbase and thus XIV cause shareholders won't like that at all. And in my opinion that is way worse than some sad people abusing the report function which they can already do anyways.

[Rolder50]

Simple "Report Player" in PvP scenarios have been shown to be targets for misuse again and again. Both unintentional and malicious. Most recently New World is a prime example of this.

I looked up New World real quick and it seems they have an automated ban system. Get enough reports -> automatic ban. No one in this thread is advocating for this. Apples to oranges.

[Insertusernamehere]

I looked up New World real quick and it seems they have an automated ban system. Get enough reports -> automatic ban. No one in this thread is advocating for this. Apples to oranges.

Yes while I play NW people abused this system to ban people they don't like from game. If SE going to use a report system they are going to need dedicated GMs for it.. They will often get false reports because when people lose they often claim other side cheating some times it is true but usually not true :3

I am not fan of FFXIV pvp but I see many people (my FC friends) liked it, I hope SE can find a good solution for it.

[Ranaku]

I looked up New World real quick and it seems they have an automated ban system. Get enough reports -> automatic ban. No one in this thread is advocating for this. Apples to oranges.

I think the bunny just has no idea how deeply embedded third party tools are by now in the community. So calling for anti cheat software is easy from that uninformed standpoint. But when we look at how many of the sub communities in this game outright rely on these programs to make guides, gposes and all that stuff then he would probably also understand why banning over half your playerbase and most of your communities from the game is a bad baaaaad idea.

[Canadane]

I think the bunny just has no idea how deeply embedded third party tools are by now in the community. So calling for anti cheat software is easy from that uninformed standpoint. But when we look at how many of the sub communities in this game outright rely on these programs to make guides, gposes and all that stuff then he would probably also understand why banning over half your playerbase and most of your communities from the game is a bad baaaaad idea.

No I think it's a fine idea.
They all know the risk. I'm sorry but if you wanna stake your time in this game on ensuring people can see your toenails or whatever, then I will not shed a tear when you are banned with the rest of the third party program users.

[Ranaku]

No I think it's a fine idea.
They all know the risk. I'm sorry but if you wanna stake your time in this game on ensuring people can see your toenails or whatever, then I will not shed a tear when you are banned with the rest of the third party program users.

Problem is that it also will detect all damage meter programs and without these people who make guides well can't make them anymore. Which means at the end of the day we also won't have rotation guides. It's not just "seeing your toenails" anymore.

Also you will be affected by it too, SE would nuke themselves into a dark age. Killing half your playerbase would be a economical suicide or do you think with less than half the budget they would be able to keep their standards and income up to make investors happy? Of course not.

[Kes13a]

Problem is that it also will detect all damage meter programs and without these people who make guides well can't make them anymore. Which means at the end of the day we also won't have rotation guides. It's not just "seeing your toenails" anymore.

Also you will be affected by it too, SE would nuke themselves into a dark age. Killing half your playerbase would be a economical suicide or do you think with less than half the budget they would be able to keep their standards and income up to make investors happy? Of course not.

how do you know that having a game that comes down hard on cheaters wont bring even a larger group of people in? you dont. just like you cant say they would lose half their player base.

[Kaurhz]

how do you know that having a game that comes down hard on cheaters wont bring even a larger group of people in? you dont. just like you cant say they would lose half their player base.

Because it fractures a large portion of the player base, effectively in some shape or form shunning a particular method of play that isn't necessarily detrimental to the experience of another individual. Be it with shunning parsing (unless used exclusively as a tool to harass), or similarly with banning certain plugins or third-party tools that if anything adds to the QoL experience, and should realistically be natively supported. Granted, I don't think it would impact the facets of gameplay or guidance that they're thinking of. People writing guides are already adept enough that they can do such simply by reading the tooltips with adequate spreadsheet knowledge.

That being said, there needs to be a distinction between something that is inherently toxic to the game community, fostering one, and something that is objectively detrimental, and more in the black and white zone of cheating, e.g. botting, and PvP hacks. With the latter being something that shouldn't be condoned, and arguably many in the former falling into the realm of potentially being QoL.

[Ranaku]

how do you know that having a game that comes down hard on cheaters wont bring even a larger group of people in? you dont. just like you cant say they would lose half their player base.

Sacrificing your players/communities for a gamble like that sounds like a REALLY bad idea. Might work, yeah i can't tell that. But the roleplay/raiding/gposing community would be lost. And these are also the communities, at least the roleplay and gposing, that leave most money in the mogstation.

And exactly that is the reason why i suggested a different approach than just murdering every goodwill you have with the community for a false sense of security. I know games who have anti cheat software running. And i played them. And i got anyways aimbotted and shot through walls and saw bots galore. There are other ways to come down hard on cheaters.